chiller recommendations

[illywhacker]

i'm just starting out ag and need a little help with the chiller question.

now, i know i'm opening a bag of very passionate worms with this question, if the chiller vs no chiller thread at AHB forum is anything to go by. my first and only ag brew used the no chiller method, and it took an age for the wort to cool down, and it just causes me stress, so i'm pretty decided on voting 'yes' for chilling. so let's just take that as a given for the moment.

i use 2 brew pots, a 15L and a 19L. as such, the immersion chillers at grain and grape will be too tall for the pots.

copper prices just seem exhorbitantly expensive. at the prices i'm being quoted, the 'chill out plate chiller' from craftbrewer seems better value than making my own immersion chiller, and much cheaper than the equivalent from grain and grape. anyone given it a go?

alternatively, i could just fill a sink with ice, given that my pots are smaller than the norm. at $3.50 a bag of ice, it would take a fair few brews to outcost market chillers. does anyone do it this way, or am i just begging for an infection while stirring the wort in the sink while changing ice.

thanks for the help guys.

[gregb]

I have, in the past, used the sink full of ice method, with no ill effects noted.

Cheers,
Greg

[lethaldog]

Buy a bigger pot as you will need to down the track anyway and use an imersion chiller, if you look at the cost of ice over a long period of time then logically you are going to spend more, just in small lots at once ( which may suit your needs better), The way i see it is pots and chillers can be expensive but once you have them there is no more spending and they deffinately do the job better and make it alot easier, i only did a couple of brews with the sink method ( extracts at about 10L Boil) and now im doing AG and using a chiller and 40L pot ( and some even say this is to small but no probs here yet) ill never look back, apart from the fact that my pot wont fit in the sink

[blandy]

I'll side with Lethal here: If you're doing mashes, sooner or later you'll need a big pot and an imersion chiller.

That said, I don't have a big pot, just a 12L pot that does an 8-10L boil. I've found for these purposes the laundry trough is pretty good. My last two brews I have made lots of ice in the freezer the day before and made sure I've got lots of grey water on hand (so I'm not just wasting tap water on chilling).

A couple of sink-fulls of ice and water, (and a couple of hours relaxing, not worrying and having homebrews), and the wort is down to about 30-40*C at which topping the fermenter up to about 20L will result in a yest-friendly pitching temperature of about 25-30*C.

I intend to get a chiller when I get a bigger pot, but ATM I only do about 4-5 AG batches a year, and space is a scarce resource. As far as efficiency goes, plate chillers aparrently are pretty good (last month I wrote some of the specs for one for a chemical plant as part of my Vac work ).

[illywhacker]

ideally, i'd side with leathal too: in happy happy land i'd have a 40L kettle, dream mash tun and an investor eager for me to go micro brewing.

unfortunately, happy happy land is a long way away. i've gone back to studies and my budget ag set up is neccessarily a compromise. i suppsose i'll just have to go sinks of ice for the moment as there seems to be no real cheap (<$100-ish) chiller option out there.

i know the 'no chillers' are just swooning to claim me to their clan.
to be fair, my only (no-chill) ag tastes pretty darn good out of the fermenter, although i think there is some slight chill-haze.

[blandy]

Good reasoning there illywhacker. chillers are good, but given that you can use a sink, I'd say they are the most easy thing to do without if you're doing AG.

Chill haze? Since when have looks spoilt a good homebrew? My best Pale Ale ever made has chill haze, so what?

[chris.]

unfortunately, happy happy land is a long way away. i've gone back to studies and my budget ag set up is neccessarily a compromise. i suppsose i'll just have to go sinks of ice for the moment as there seems to be no real cheap (<$100-ish) chiller option out there.

i know the 'no chillers' are just swooning to claim me to their clan.
to be fair, my only (no-chill) ag tastes pretty darn good out of the fermenter, although i think there is some slight chill-haze.

No chill haze here

I'd find a big enough jerry to take the whole batch (20L should be OK). After transfer leave the jerry on its end to pastuerize the handle, opening, & lid. Then crash cool the whole jerry in the ice bath. You can then leave the wort for a few days before fermenting without having to worry about infection.

[Swifty]

So is there any reason you can't just leave it in the fermenter if it's been steralised properly and then it's ready to just pitch the yeast when the temp is right, that is of course if you aren't planning on storing it long term?

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Less is more (but so is more).

I am a reformed gear freak, so I will preach whatever uses the least kit.

Remember me, all, when I die of botulism poisoning...

[chris.]

So is there any reason you can't just leave it in the fermenter if it's been steralised properly and then it's ready to just pitch the yeast when the temp is right, that is of course if you aren't planning on storing it long term?

I have heard of people doing this. But I prefer not to.
1. for sanitary reasons. Using this 'canning' method effectively kills most pathogens.
2. because I like having the option of being able to store the wort for upto a week (or even longer) for times when I can't find the time to brew.

[chris.]

Remember me, all, when I die of botulism poisoning...

This is something I've been researching of late. & yes I believe Botulism thrives in an anaerobic environment. But I'm not 100% sure if the environment created is really an anaerobic one.
But I believe with thorough cleaning & sanitation proceedures the chances of botulism spores making it into the wort are very slim.

[SpillsMostOfIt]

It would appear from a rough statistical analysis that you are more likely to die of pretty much *anything else* than botulism in your beer if you take the sorts of sanitary practices you should be taking anyway.

I have, however, ensured I don't own any shares in companies who sell fresh wort kits - just in case...

I agree with chris that it is a wonderful way to keep your fermenter in work if you are otherwise time-constrained.

[Swifty]

So where's the best place to get the jerry's, Bunnings or Army disposals. Wouldn't you need more like a 25Litre if making a 23Litre batch?

[chris.]

So where's the best place to get the jerry's, Bunnings or Army disposals. Wouldn't you need more like a 25Litre if making a 23Litre batch?

I use a couple of 17.5L jobs myself. I do a higher gravity boil & dilute to 20L in the fermentor. I got my jerrys free when I bought a couple of fresh wort kits

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Your mileage may vary, but I recently looked at (did not buy) jerries at Bunnings and Ray's Outdoors. The latter was considerably cheaper than the former.

There are a few thrift shops around the place that are rumoured to have cheap stuff as well.

If you value your time more than a few dollars, you could just get them wherever is closest...

[lethaldog]

Big W is where i got mine and they were only $18 from memory for 20 litre containers

[Trough Lolly]

A mitre-10 shop opened up some time ago and had opening specials - and 25L plastic jerries in stock. So I confirmed they had plenty, went to Bunnings and they beat the special price by a further 10% and had to honor since Mitre-10 had them in stock!
...you gotta love open market competition!

Cheers,
TL

[Fents]

I use the no chill method and i also dont use jerry can's, just my fermenter and never had a problem, just got to remember to shake the buggery out of the wort before pitching yeast.

I also used to use the cold water sink method.

Simple - If you cant afford to outlay for a chiller, use ice. When you can afford it buy a chiller.

[Ross]

I use the no chill method and i also dont use jerry can's, just my fermenter and never had a problem, just got to remember to shake the buggery out of the wort before pitching yeast.

I also used to use the cold water sink method.

Simple - If you cant afford to outlay for a chiller, use ice. When you can afford it buy a chiller.

Fents,

If using dry yeasts, aeration is not needed, the Oxygen requirement is built into the yeast. I transfer my beers hot to the fermenter & pitch 1 or 2 days later. All ferment out perfectly. If using liquid, then yes, shake like buggery

cheers Ross

[Fents]

I use the no chill method and i also dont use jerry can's, just my fermenter and never had a problem, just got to remember to shake the buggery out of the wort before pitching yeast.

I also used to use the cold water sink method.

Simple - If you cant afford to outlay for a chiller, use ice. When you can afford it buy a chiller.

Fents,

If using dry yeasts, aeration is not needed, the Oxygen requirement is built into the yeast. I transfer my beers hot to the fermenter & pitch 1 or 2 days later. All ferment out perfectly. If using liquid, then yes, shake like buggery

cheers Ross

Is that right! well i learn somthing new every day....my back breaking "shaking" 23litres of wort days are now over! And for saving my back Ross i owe you a brew!