Damn infection!!

mark_68 · Post by **mark_68** » Wednesday Apr 04, 2007 9:51 pm

I had a few of my first extract brews a couple of nights ago and in two of the bottles noticed a strange but not unpleasant buttery taste.I put the bottles up to a light and noticed a white,streaky film that clung to the sides of both bottles.I guessed it was an infection,but couldn't work out how it happened as i use phosphoric acid based sanitiser to de-bug my fermenter and bottles.I checked some of my other brews and noticed that some of them had a similar film on the sides of the bottles,so i got worried.After chilling and taste testing a couple of them,they tasted quite nice,so the infection hasn't ruined these brews yet.After this disaster,i have taken to soaking my bottles in bleach to hopefully get rid of this persistent bug.What i am also wondering is whether this could have come from not chilling the wort down fast enough after boiling,as i just put the pot in the bath with some cool water and leave for an hour.It's got me beat!!!

SpillsMostOfIt · Wednesday Apr 04, 2007 10:30 pm

What part of the world are you in?

Which bits of kit do you not clean with phosphoric acid?

How do you clean yourself before brewing?

Which parts of your process do you do inside, outside, within coo-ee of the crapper?

Think about what might be lurking in your bath?

Is the buttery flavour *actually* an infection? Take a bottle and warm it up to quite warm overnight and see what it looks like in the morning - if it is an infection, you should (?) see a bloom...

I have no answers - I just have some questions for you to contemplate.

velophile · Post by **velophile** » Thursday Apr 05, 2007 12:33 pm

A sweetish buttery aroma & flavour could be diacetyl.

If so it will fade with time & ageing. I find diacetyl gives a huge hangover.

SpillsMostOfIt · Post by **SpillsMostOfIt** » Thursday Apr 05, 2007 3:54 pm

Does Jack Daniels and Cola have diacetyl in it?

gregb · Post by **gregb** » Thursday Apr 05, 2007 5:17 pm

Spills,

If JD & Coke is giving you bad hangovers, try drinking JD with out the coke. Seriously. Seriously, I had a similar problem with Bundy & Coke. Switched to Bundy & Soda and noted a marked improvement in the morning. Evil stuff is coke.

Cheers,
Greg

SpillsMostOfIt · Post by **SpillsMostOfIt** » Thursday Apr 05, 2007 5:26 pm

gregb wrote:Spills,

If JD & Coke is giving you bad hangovers, try drinking JD with out the coke. Seriously. Seriously, I had a similar problem with Bundy & Coke. Switched to Bundy & Soda and noted a marked improvement in the morning. Evil stuff is coke.

Cheers,
Greg

Naah... I reckon JD, Beam and Turkey are cola bourbons. You're right though - the sugar and the caffeine are wicked and to be avoided.

My tipple of choice in that realm is Labrot & Graham's Woodford Reserve.... Now, there is a bourbon... *gurgle*.

Don't drink much bourbon at all these days for some reason.

buscador · Post by **buscador** » Thursday Apr 05, 2007 6:32 pm

woodford reserve, ummmmm good

try 4 roses, i think thats it
yeah, just checked, its good

*note-not totally wasted,,yet...

b

SpillsMostOfIt · Post by **SpillsMostOfIt** » Thursday Apr 05, 2007 6:54 pm

We need to clean this thread up before mark_68 gets back. He'll be furious if we don't have an answer for him!

chris. · Post by **chris.** » Thursday Apr 05, 2007 7:28 pm

I don't think you should be looking towards your slow chilling as the cause just yet. Unless your picking up an infection there. But I've never come across an infection which will result in a buttery flavour.

As velophile has stated you might have a Diacetyl issue. But this would depend on your yeast strain & fermentation temperature. This is where I'd look first.

As for the film it could just be dirty bottles. A few months after I started brewing I recall getting film build up's in the bottles. I ditched the bottlebrush & switched to soaking each bottle overnight in Napisan before storing for bottling. Worked a treat IMO.

Emo · Post by **Emo** » Thursday Apr 05, 2007 7:45 pm

SpillsMostOfIt wrote:Does Jack Daniels and Cola have diacetyl in it?

Wild Turkey definitely does.

Trough Lolly · Post by **Trough Lolly** » Thursday Apr 05, 2007 10:10 pm

...another vote here for diacetyl. And the white streaky stuff on the sides of the bottles is probably yeast. Aged beers and ciders often exhibit this harmless trait and a bottle brush easily removes it.

Cheers,
TL

mark_68 · Post by **mark_68** » Saturday Apr 07, 2007 7:20 pm

Yeh,it doesn't seem to affect the flavour in any way,so i guess it may be yeast.I am now bottle brushing every bottle after drinking and then later,when near ready to bottling,i soak them in chlorine bleach for 12 hours,as this seems to dissolve everything that sticks to the sides of the bottles.I have just started inspecting every bottle against a light and have noticed a few where there is a persistant stain on the sides of the bottle which ,i guess ,may hold bacteria.The soak in bleach gets rid of this.I still use the phosphoric acid based sanitiser after thorough rinsing of the bleach,as i don't have to rinse this stuff,which should give me better protection against bacterial infections.It freaks me out when i see any stains or streaks of stuff inside my bottles,i guess i am becoming paranoid.

OldBugman · Post by **OldBugman** » Saturday Apr 07, 2007 10:03 pm

your not storing your bottles on their sides are you?

Danzar · Post by **Danzar** » Sunday Apr 08, 2007 10:26 am

chris. wrote:But I've never come across an infection which will result in a buttery flavour.

It's got to be diacetyl. Some beer manufacturers deliberately brew this way.

Do you think the taste/aroma is closer to butterscotch/buttered popcorn rather than butter itself?

3 monts is a commercial beer with a hefty amount of diacetyl in it. A lovely French beer, probably because they balance off the diacetyl with something else (not sure what).

chris. · Post by **chris.** » Sunday Apr 08, 2007 4:25 pm

Danzar wrote:
chris. wrote:But I've never come across an infection which will result in a buttery flavour.
It's got to be diacetyl. Some beer manufacturers deliberately brew this way.

Do you think the taste/aroma is closer to butterscotch/buttered popcorn rather than butter itself?

3 monts is a commercial beer with a hefty amount of diacetyl in it. A lovely French beer, probably because they balance off the diacetyl with something else (not sure what).

There's an Oak aged Scottish ale by Innis & Gunn that has over the top amounts of Diacetyl. It was like sucking on a butterscotch lolly.

Danzar · Post by **Danzar** » Monday Apr 09, 2007 11:20 am

Yeah, this one is much softer. The butterscotch flavour is about as prominent as the banana flavours in wheat beers.