Coopers Bavarian Lager - didn't come with Saflager????

flosso · Post by **flosso** » Tuesday Jun 21, 2005 12:26 am

I picked up Coopers Bavarian Lager kit yesterday, mainly because it comes with a saflager yeast so I thought I'd see how it went.

I get it home and have a read of the instructions - there is NOTHING to suggest that I have a Bavarian Lager kit. The introduction says

Welcome to the Coopers "Original Series" offering a beer style for every palate. Choose from Lager, Draught, Real Ale, Bitter, Classic Old Dark and Stout

.

Now, the Bavarian Lager is part of the International Series, not the Original Series. It leads me to think that yeast supplied is therefore not a saflager yeast, but an ordinary ale yeast. There is no serial number on the yeast packet - it says 'Pure Brewers Yeast' and has a gold-coloured package.

Has anyone else come across this? I have read a instruction booklet from a Bavarian Lager kit my mate bought and it was nothing like this one. The instruction booklet I have mentioned brewing between 21 and 27 degrees - too hot for a lager yeast.

I am going to have to take the kit back anyway as it turns out it was a month out of date when I bought it, which is a blessing in disguise as I wouldn't expect the staff at Harris Scarfe to understand why I'd want a refund because a lager yeast wasn't supplied - but I wonder if this sort of thing has happened before and unsuspecting brewers have been caught out by it.

I have noticed there are two types of labels for the Bavarian Lager - one predominately black (the one I bought), and another mostly red.

I'm a huge fan of coopers products (both commercial and homebrew) but this incident has annoyed me somewhat.

NTRabbit · Post by **NTRabbit** » Tuesday Jun 21, 2005 1:05 am

The same instruction booklet comes in all the Coopers cans, its generic - however you should read it more carefully, there is a note telling you to go to page 7. The top half is labelled "Common Faults" and is the usual troubleshooting guide, but the bottom half is labelled "Brewing Notes for Bavarian Lager" and contains information about how the lager yeast supplied means you need to brew it like this etc

[edit] Oh wait, i was wrong. My booklet says

Welcome to the Coopers "original series" developed for those brewers seeking the unique international flavours and characteristics of regional beer styles. Chhose from Canadian Blonde and Bavarian Lager

My can was an older one, it had the new International series red label in paper wrapped around the tin, covering the original black label printed on the metal. The date was still fine though.

I put mine down on Thursday, and its definitely a Lager yeast - had the "P" on the back of the foil package, is brewing at 16*C (cold as i can get it during the day) and smells of eggs out of the airlock. I guess your can somehow got the wrong instruction booklet and yeast package put in the lid , perhaps by an employee who thought "bah lets just chuck a loose coopers book and a brewiser/brigalow yeast package (Pure Brewers Yeast in a plain gold package sounds like the Brigalow one i saw in Big W today) under the lid and sell it anyway, noone will notice the difference"

stevem · Post by **stevem** » Tuesday Jun 21, 2005 8:49 am

I have a Coopers Bavarian Lager brewing at the moment as well. I used the included yeast. Had the "p" on the packet. It is fermenting nicely at about 13 degrees C.

Cheers
Steve

db · Post by db » Tuesday Jun 21, 2005 8:55 am

i too have come across 2 types of booklets - 'orginal series' booklet + an 'international series' booklet

flosso · Post by **flosso** » Tuesday Jun 21, 2005 9:39 am

Thanks for the replies guys,

Is this 'P' on the packet just there on it's own or printed as part of something else - is it printed as part of the label printing or added later like a typewriter embossing. I'm pretty sure the only thing printed on the back of the packet was the best before date (the kit is at home and I'm at work so can't check).

Is this worth contacting Coopers about? I'm going to return the kit to where I bought it anyway due to it being sold out of date, but I thought I might contact Coopers to see if they know of the issue.

By the way, the packet of yeast did have 'Coopers' printed on it.

Post by **Oliver** » Tuesday Jun 21, 2005 10:07 am

Flosso,

There will be a best-before date stamped onto the packet. After the date there should be a P, indicating that the yeast is a pilsner yeast.

For more information, check out http://www.homebrewandbeer.com/forum/vi ... .php?t=571

Cheers,

Oliver

flosso · Post by **flosso** » Tuesday Jun 21, 2005 10:24 am

Thanks Oliver,

I'm pretty sure there wasn't a 'P' stamped next to the best before date - I'll double check tonight but I'm 95% confident there wasn't.

On the off chance that it was a lager yeast there was nothing in the booklet to suggest brewing at a lower temperature - it receommended 21 - 27 degrees. Any newbie brewer probably wouldn't know that a salflager yeast needs to be brewed at lower temps than this and might get a dud batch as a result. This is assuming off course that the yeast supplied with my kit (there were probably a dozen more similar Bavarian Lager's on the shelf) was actually a saflager and not an ale yeast as I suspect.

Post by **Oliver** » Tuesday Jun 21, 2005 10:32 am

Give the Cooper's homebrew line a call. The number's on the pamphlet, but I can't find it in the White Pages or on the Cooper's website.

Let us know what happens.

Cheers,

Oliver

gregb · Post by **gregb** » Tuesday Jun 21, 2005 11:50 am

From memory it might have a "see page 7 for Pilsner and Bavarian Lager" in the instructions.

Greg.

flosso · Post by **flosso** » Friday Jun 24, 2005 12:43 am

It is with my tail firmly between my legs that come back and announce that there is indeed a "P" stamped after the best before date on my yeast, sticking out at me like a dog's proverbials (so much for my 95% confidence, no wonder I'm not a professional gambler yet).

However I've thoroughly gone over the booklet and it definely says nothing about either Bavarian lager tips or brewing at a lower temperature - in fact many times through the booklet it says to brew between 21-27 degrees and not let it drop below 18. I've scanned page 7 and attached it below:

I think this is still an issue as the unsuspecting newbie will have no idea to brew at a lower temperature - I'll email Coopers about it and keep everyone informed of the response.

BPJ · Post by **BPJ** » Saturday Jun 25, 2005 1:46 pm

Just checked the can I have of Bavarian. Page 7 has that on the top half and teh bottom half is dedicated to Bavarian, recommending that brew "at the low end of the temperature range (i.e. 21C)" says that it can brew to as low as 13C

Page 5 temp control says to see page 7 re Bavarian. Brewing record also says to see page 7

NTRabbit · Post by **NTRabbit** » Monday Jun 27, 2005 5:23 am

Can i ask, what does it mean if my Bavarian Lager has been in the fermenter for about 10 days, there is a visible thick layer of inactive yeast coating the bottom, the airlock is still bubbling slowly but i cant get it down from about 1.018?

Kit, Coopers BE1, Coopers 500g Light DME, filled to 22L with OG of 1.048

tommo · Post by **tommo** » Monday Jun 27, 2005 8:17 am

NTRabbit wrote:Can i ask, what does it mean if my Bavarian Lager has been in the fermenter for about 10 days, the airlock is still bubbling slowly but i cant get it down from about 1.018?

NTR,

What temp is the brew at ?
If it's within the specified range I'm pretty certain it will take longer than 10 days, up to 2 weeks +.

If you havn't got a secondary now would be a good time to get one.
Rack it and forget it for awhile.

hope this helps

tommo

stevem · Post by **stevem** » Monday Jun 27, 2005 9:06 am

My Coopers Bavarian has been in the fermenter for 2 weeks at about 12C to 14C but temps did drop closer to 10 before the weekend. SG is at 1020. I will rack tonight and check SG again. NTR, just be patient I guess... I reckon mine still has a bit to go.

Cheers
Steve

NTRabbit · Post by **NTRabbit** » Monday Jun 27, 2005 3:10 pm

tommo wrote:
NTRabbit wrote:Can i ask, what does it mean if my Bavarian Lager has been in the fermenter for about 10 days, the airlock is still bubbling slowly but i cant get it down from about 1.018?

NTR,

What temp is the brew at ?
If it's within the specified range I'm pretty certain it will take longer than 10 days, up to 2 weeks +.

If you havn't got a secondary now would be a good time to get one.
Rack it and forget it for awhile.

hope this helps

tommo

Its been at about 16*C most of the time. Whilst i do have a second fermenter, i cant rack into it because its currently fermenting a Tooheys Dark Ale.

NTRabbit · Post by **NTRabbit** » Wednesday Jun 29, 2005 7:31 pm

Its been at 1.018 for 4 days now and the airlock bubbling (the seal is definitely airtight) has reduced to maybe once every 25 or 30 minutes, im slightly concerned. Any ideas?

Just checked it again after half an hour when i went to dispose of the sample, and it was maybe 1.0155. Two weeks in the fermenter on thursday.

Post by **Oliver** » Wednesday Jun 29, 2005 8:52 pm

1018 is not beyond possibility given you added 1.5kg of malt and brew enhancer.

Don't forget also that at the temperature at which you're brewing you'll need to make a correction to the hydrometer reading (probably take 1 or 2 points off).

See http://www.homebrewandbeer.com/forum/vi ... .php?t=574 for the table of corrections (although your hydrometer probably came with a sheet setting out the corrections for that particular model).

Cheers,

Oliver

mixtli · Post by **mixtli** » Thursday Jul 07, 2005 7:47 am

well then...I wonder what my Bavarian lager's going to be like.
It's been brewing at about 26 for 4 days.

gregb · Post by **gregb** » Thursday Jul 07, 2005 7:59 am

Mixtli,

I've brewed a few Bavarians in the warmer months (25 or so degrees) they came out fine.

Cheers,

Greg.

mixtli · Post by **mixtli** » Thursday Jul 07, 2005 6:39 pm

Thanks for that Greg.
This batch is looking like it's going to be ready to bottle in half the time it usually takes.
When I lived in Perth, I had the opposite problem this time of year