Tasting Beers

[kymg]

Evening Folks,

A quick question! I have noticed that there have been suggestions to taste the brew before it is bottled.

I am wondering - what should it taste like. Should it taste like what you expect the finished brew to taste like - except a bit flat. What other features should a fella (or girl) look for??

Thanks

[Chris]

It is good to taste the brew throughout the process in my opinion, as (with experience) you can work out what is going on.

Prior to bottling, your beer will generally taste 'green'- basically a bit raw and rough around the edges. It tends to have some excessive flavours as part of the flavour profile that will generally (over time) reduce or disappear entirely.

There are plenty of examples, just do a search for a flavour profile guide on google or similar.

[drsmurto]

I taste throughout the process from munching on the grain, sniffing the hops, tasting the SG sample of the sugary wort and then a few times along the way to completing the ferment. Its key IMHO to learning more about the process. I truly believe that brewing is a lot like cooking, you make sure your ingredients smell, taste OK before using them and taste along the way to see whether you need to add anything etc. Funnily enough, what i do (synthetic chemistry) is similar in concept altho i dont taste and only occasionally sniff which is probably why i enjoy the brewing process as much, if not more than the final product. Same goes for cooking.

Edit - didnt answer the question after all that. What to look for? Initially the beer is out of balance, very sweet but with a sharp bitterness which slowly changes as the sugars are converted to alcohol. As you bottle the beer tastes similar to the final product altho some styles might still be out of whack as carbonation effects the taste too (unless you brew a lot of english ales like me that are low carbed and served warm in which case its hard to stop sampling every day!)

[rwh]

I find it tastes pretty much as you'd expect. Yeasty, warm, flat. One other thing, I find you really can't judge the hops profile of a beer in this state. Some people find green beers overly bitter, some overly sweet, but this does change with cold and carbonation (especially carbonation).

One thing you can say is that it should not taste bad. If it does, you have a problem.

[Chris]

I find lagers often tasty too sweet, and ales too bitter at this stage. Just a general observation.

And well put doc, but for some reason you don't chew hop pellets! That really gives a good indication of flavour

[rwh]

I find lagers often tasty too sweet, and ales too bitter at this stage. Just a general observation.

Aaaah. I was wondering why I'd experienced both, just hadn't made the connection I guess.

[sonictruth]

i had a munch on some amarillo once. almost put me off golden ale.......almost.
anyone else had a go? i know if you havent done it you've definately thought about it

[Chris]

I always chew hop pellets.

[James L]

i might get on the band wagon and taste a few.

[Kevnlis]

I have thought about it, of course, but it is sort of like dog food, you wonder, but you do not execute... unless you are Chris...

[James L]

if mad max does it... i'd do it...

but seriously a friend of mine used to eat dog biscuits as a TV snack, dunno how good it is for you, but it gave him a glorious shiny coat...

[rwh]

I've tried making a hops tea using some hop pellets in one of those tea infuser ball things. Nearly spat it out; perhaps I used too much, but boy biiiitttteeeer!

[Tipsy]

if mad max does it... i'd do it...

but seriously a friend of mine used to eat dog biscuits as a TV snack, dunno how good it is for you, but it gave him a glorious shiny coat...

Did he piss on the curtains?

[James L]

HAHA nar..

[Chris]

I thought everyone chewed hop pellets! Where is the dedication?

[Trough Lolly]

Hop flower, anyone?!

[drsmurto]

TL, heard that chewing on a hop flower is a dodgy way of determining the AA%. Count down from 10, when you spit the flower out thats the AA. Been thinking about that whilst staring at my chinook flowers. Anyone tried this? If they are around 10% it means i will have to go easy using them for flavour and stick to aroma.

[Kevnlis]

TL, heard that chewing on a hop flower is a dodgy way of determining the AA%. Count down from 10, when you spit the flower out thats the AA. Been thinking about that whilst staring at my chinook flowers. Anyone tried this? If they are around 10% it means i will have to go easy using them for flavour and stick to aroma.

Wouldn't you have access to everything you would need to run a proper test in the lab? I am not sure what is involved but Basic Brewing had a radio show where a scientist gave a brief description of the process and it sounded pretty straight forward.

Found this on Zymurgy:

Estimating Hop Bitterness

The old standard method to estimate alpha-acid percentage is to make an educated guess and then modify the guess as you gain brewing experience with your hops. Because homegrown hops are fresher and have suffered less handling, they are more bitter than commercial hops. Estimating their alpha as 50 percent higher than the average alpha for the same commercial cultivar is a pretty good guess. Knowing the exact alpha of your hops is less critical if you use them only for flavor and aroma additions.

We can improve on this guess with a taste-testing technique I call "ratiometric titration." The approach here is to compare a same-cultivar hop of known alpha content with our unknown alpha hop. We compare the ratio of quantities of sugar needed to overcome the bitterness and infer that this ratio will equal the ratio of alphas. Thus, if it takes five teaspoons of sugar to offset the bitterness of our homegrown hops and three teaspoons to null the commercial hops, then our hops are five-thirds as strong, and our alpha-acid content is five-thirds the commercial alpha. If the commercial alpha is 6 percent, then our alpha is 5/3 times 6, or 10 percent.

I make up two hop tea samples - one from our unknown alpha fresh hops, and the second from commercial whole leaf hops of the same cultivar with known alpha. Stir one-quarter ounce hops plus one teaspoon sugar into two cups of boiling water (the sugar is needed because the hop resins are nearly insoluble in plain water.) Next, reduce the heat and simmer with the lid on for 30 minutes. Now add enough boiled water to each sample to bring their volumes back to two cups. Let the teas settle and cool to room temperature. Next, decant and filter the teas through a coffee filter to remove sediment.

Now comes the tasting part. It's best to do the tasting in the morning when your taste buds are freshest. Measure a quarter cup of each of the hops teas. Now taste a few drops of the unknown alpha tea and rinse off your tongue. The tea will taste bitter, of course. Next, add one-quarter teaspoon sugar and taste. It will taste a little less bitter. Continue titrating the tea with the sugar in quarter-teaspoon increments (and doing a tongue rinsing between each tasting) while tasting for the point when the predominantly bitter taste finally gives way to a sweet taste (with bitter overtones). This is when the bitter loses its bite. Record the amount of sugar it took to reach this turning point. Now repeat the titration with the known alpha tea. The ratio of the titrated sugar for the unknown hops to the sugar required for the known hops is our estimate of the ratio of the alphas of the respective hops.

If this method seems too imprecise for you, send a one-ounce sample of hops to Jim Murphey at Murphey Analytical Laboratories Inc., (509) 577-8969. He will do an alpha-acid and beta-acid spectrographic analysis for about $28 and a hop oil profile analysis for $80. He also will perform an IBU analysis of your beer for $25. (Send two bottles - one for testing and one for qualitative analysis while doing the write-up - to 7 W. Mead Ave., Yakima, WA 98902.)

[Trough Lolly]

TL, heard that chewing on a hop flower is a dodgy way of determining the AA%. Count down from 10, when you spit the flower out thats the AA. Been thinking about that whilst staring at my chinook flowers. Anyone tried this? If they are around 10% it means i will have to go easy using them for flavour and stick to aroma.

The last time I participated in our club's annual brew day at the Wig and Pen (essentially we took over the place and brewed the ACT comp winning beer), they festooned the bar with PoR bines complete with flowers. As I launched into my first pint that morning, (an IPA through a well packed randall - an absolute blinder!), I casually plucked the nearest flower and started munching away. OMG! I had PoR flavour on my palate for the next few hours!

Fortunately a steady procession of RIS took care of things...and me for that matter!

Cheers,
TL