Should I add extra hops to a Coopers premium tin lager?

[Fifey]

I've got a Thomas Coopers lager tin to try out, and a packet of Hallertau hop pellets (not having any idea about which to pick, I grabbed some of that). Should I chuck some in, and if so, how much? Would I need to balance out the brew any other way?

A bit overwhelmed by all of the new avenues of approach brewing outside of the tin + brew enhancer.

[wrighty]

Gday Fifey,
That amount wouldnt hurt,if you want extra bitterness i would do a small 1lt boil made up to 1040 with a bit of be2.
The important thing is temp control im pretty sure the yeast supplied is an ale anyway so 18-20 will be fine.
True Lagers are best done at 10-12c with a better yeast than the kit and take a whole lot longer to finish and
condition out in to decent beer.Start out simple adding bits as you go as you are doing and it will hold you in good stead for the future.
Have a read of the articles at the top of the forum great info in those.

[Fifey]

Oops, my post was probably a bit open to misinterpretation, and hardly specific. I've already been lurking around for some time, though this is my first brew with only the tin, the tin yeat and brew enhancer, so I've still got some questions.

I've got some Saflager yeast,
Thomas Cooper lager tin,
Light liquid malt extract,
and the hops (50g Hallertau pellets).

I've already got a better yeast, and I'm using LME. How long should I boil the hop pellets for?

I was also going to grab some crystal grain, but there was none left at the shop. Might try some for the next brew though, is going to be an English Bitter kit and bits (though what bits would be appropriate I'm not sure).

[Fifey]

What specifically should I do with the hops? I want to get this brew started over the weekend.

[earle]

OK Fifey

Still not quite specific enough so I'll make a couple of assumptions.
1.5kg light liquid malt since this is a common tin size
9.0%AA for your hops though yours may be quite different to this.
23L final brew volume

Get a pot and put in 4L of water and about 550g of your liquid malt. Put it on the stove and bring to the boil, give it a bit if a stir so the malt doesn't scorch on the bottom while its dissolving.
When it comes to the boil add 15g of your hops, keep boiling.
10 minutes later pop another 15g in.
After another five minutes turn off the stove. Just before this put the lid on the pot so the steam sterilises it.
Run some cold water in the sink and sit the pot in to cool. Replace the sink water when it becomes warm.
Once cool tip the contents of the pot into your fermenter along with the rest of your ingredients. Some people tip it through a sieve to remove the hops, I don't bother.

What you will have done is a 15min and 5min hop addition which will add about 10IBU to your brew which will help balance out the liquid malt you're adding. It will also add hop flavour and aroma.

Cheers
Earle

[Fifey]

Couldn't find the scales so I just squared the the hops up , ended up going with:

Thomas Coopers flash lager
1.5k L-LME
500g L-DME (I panicked a bit, thought that it might be a bit too hoppy, probably should have left it out though).
~8g 3 Hallertau @ 15
~12.5g Hallertau @5
~4.5g Hallertau at flame-out

Made to 23L

As the scales I have are crap anyway, in future I will get my mate to measure out hop portions in advance using the scales in the lab at the winery he works at. 15 gram portions with the remaining 5g for small adds seems like a good idea. It smells lovely, I tried a bit before pitching the yeast to try and gauge it. The hops will likely mellow out a bit, but it made me realise I would love to do a lager big on noble hops.

The hops were 3%, that's the alpha acid percentage, right? Very much a home brewing newbie.

[earle]

The 3% is most likely the alpha acid %, this varies between years and strains of the same hop.

What you have done sounds fine. You've probably added only a couple of IBU to the kit IBU as the percentage and quantities were lower than what I had calculated. I'm sure it will be quite drinkable. The balance may come up a bit sweet with all that malt but the idea is to make a batch, taste it then adjust the next batch to your tastes accordingly.

Next step is to steep some spec grains for added flavour and body. Maybe some carapils if your keen on lagers.

[Fifey]

Hmm, I'm not sure it will tickle me personally, but a sweeter beer would probably go down well with some of the people I know, not least the mate I brew with.

Based off of a Cascade or Coopers lager tin (because I know I can get them down this way), what should I do next? I've got some Hallertau left, but I also want to try some thing different like Saaz.

Is there much point using carapils as my first speciality grain, rather than just using corn syrup, being as it's just a body and head enhancer, right?

I'd like to do a Belgian Ale, but I'm waiting on a second fermenter.

[bullfrog]

If you've not used spec grain before then I'd suggest using the carapils, if for no other reason than to start getting your steeping/mashing processes worked out. There really is nothing to steeping grain, and mashing is really just a prolonged steep, so you may even start yourself on the slippery slope to AG!

[Fifey]

Very good point, and I'd concede it to you, but for me seeing this recipe:

Lethaldog's Belgian Ale

ldme 2.3kg
black grain (crushed) 30g
soft dark brown sugar 400g
blended honey 250g
bittering hops hallertau 40g
bittering hops goldings 20g
if you can get hold of a bottle of chimay blue label then make a starter out of it but if not just use a good ale yeast eg. safale or wyeast abbey ale

boil all ingredients for 40 min then strain and adjust to 15 litres with cold water, wait to pitch yeast untill it reaches 25*c.

We just acquired some 20L barrels for racking, but we probably only need two. While the lager was doing it's thing, I was going to make this. What do you think?

[Anna]

Gday Fifey,
The important thing is temp control im pretty sure the yeast supplied is an ale anyway so 18-20 will be fine.

Hey Wrighty - according to the Coopers website, their Thomas Coopers Heritage Lager actually has a blend of their own ale yeast PLUS a lager yeast.

Anna

[earle]

Why not order some carapils for lager and black grain for the belgian and plan to do both. While you at it get some crystal, caramalt etc. You can order in quantities of 500g, so get a few and have a play around with the flavours. I find the craftbrewer website (when its back next week) quite hady because it lists whather you need to steep or mash grains, makes chossing easier as I only steep at this stage.

BTW, you need a bit more info for that Belgian recipe, as in what to do with the hops.

Been a bit quiet here lately. Good to see some posts.

[Fifey]

Oops! Didn't copy and paste the whole thing. I am planning on doing both, but I was wondering whether starting off with the dark grain would be a good idea. "Boil all ingredients for 40 minutes then strain" sounds quite straightforward though!

[earle]

Dark ales are much more forgiving than lagers. Because lagers are supposed to be so 'clean' any mistakes stick out like the proverbial. However Belgians are another story altogether. Haven't attempted one yet but is soon on the list. Haven't read the entire thread you got the recipe from but from what you're saying sounds like its well worth a go. What have you got to lose.

"Boil all ingredients for 40 minutes then strain" sounds quite straightforward though!

Just make sure you don't boil the grains. Steep them at about 70C then boil the resulting liquor.

BTW don't think I said that I order my grain precracked and store it in airtight bags in the freezer.

[Fifey]

Dark ales are much more forgiving than lagers. Because lagers are supposed to be so 'clean' any mistakes stick out like the proverbial. However Belgians are another story altogether. Haven't attempted one yet but is soon on the list. Haven't read the entire thread you got the recipe from but from what you're saying sounds like its well worth a go. What have you got to lose.

Cool. It did seem to be rather popular amongst the people that brewed it. I will lose 30 bucks or so if it all goes horribly wrong of course, but it's a small risk!

Just make sure you don't boil the grains. Steep them at about 70C then boil the resulting liquor.

I had wondered about that, though I obviously wasn't sure at all. I think I might pick up a digital thermometer for steeping and other things, I also want to sub the sugar in the Belgian for candy, apparently that makes quite a good heady brew.

Thanks for the advice, I certainly need it!

[bullfrog]

I don't bother too much with measuring my temps for just steeping grain. I just throw 3/4 of my total water volume in, directly out of a just-boiled kettle and the last 1/4 is added at my cold tap temperature. Tends to do the job.

[Fifey]

Cool. Do you just let it sit, or do you put it on low heat on the stove?

I'd still like to grab the thermometer though, it'd be handy for lots of other stuff as long as the temp range is good.

Any ideas on figures and ingredients in the next lager? We want to use some yeast from this lager and re-cultivate it for the next brew. I'd like to use a rather plain tin as a base and add to it, maybe the bog standard Coopers or Cascade lager. Is this a good idea? I should have ~35g Hallertau left over after starting the Belgian, and I'd like to try out another noble hop in it as well- maybe a Saaz or something. Not sure on what hops for how long though. Should I dry hop any of the Hallertau?

As well as the Carapils in the lager, should we chuck in another grain (steeping rather than mashing for now, preferably)?

Where on the net should I grab some grain from?

[bullfrog]

Plenty of places online to grab grain from. Craftbrewer are who I use when I'm ordering things I can't get in my LHBS but they're closed due to moving or something until tomorrow.

As for adding more spec grains to your lager, it really depends on what malt profile you're going for. Most online places will list the qualities of the different grains, and what you can expect for them to add to the brew. Have a browse and choose whichever you'd think you'd like in a lager.

And don't add heat whilst steeping. Just let it sit for at least 20 minutes - half an hour (or much longer, if you forget about it, as I have done plenty of times in the past), then strain the wort off and add it to your boil. I also sparge, so I just get some more hot water and rinse the grain after I've strained it. That liquor also goes in the boil.

[Fifey]

Craftbrewer look good, and are also rather helpful in their product descriptions. Will be getting in some Carapils and other grains soon, as well as a few bags of LDME because theirs looks quite cheap.

Now onto another question, cold conditioning. Should I do this in secondary?

[warra48]

Craftbrewer look good, and are also rather helpful in their product descriptions. Will be getting in some Carapils and other grains soon, as well as a few bags of LDME because theirs looks quite cheap.

Now onto another question, cold conditioning. Should I do this in secondary?

Others will disagree with me, but I cold condition my ales in my primary fermenter. Often I will allow primary to ferment for 2 weeks, before dropping the temperature to 2 to 3ºC for another 2 weeks. I then bottle from primary.

For lagers, I allow primary to ferment for 3 weeks at around 10ºC. I then let the temperature come up to 18 to 19ºC for a couple of days for a diacetyl rest, even though I don't think my beers need it (I cold pitch a large starter).
Then I rack to a jerry can and slowly reduce the temperature to 2 to 3ºC for up to 8 weeks before bottling.