newby needs help! is it stuck?

[Chrisp]

Hi guys, just wondering if someone can give a new brewer some info. I know alot of you dont like the idea of of kit yeast etc, but couldnt wait any longer to pitch ( hope thats the right terminology) , so I just used the Coopers lager with the brew enhancer 1. Anyway to cut a long story short i think that the fermentation might have stuck. fermentation has definantly stoped no bubbles in the airlock & gravity not changed for a couple of days. The problem is that the finale gravity is only 1.020 after starting at 1.040. The temp slowly droped ,from 24 to 18 over the last couple of weeks (brewed on the 16-09-09) but not dramaticaly, & being an ale yeast I didnt think it to bad? I did use spring water in my brew thinking this would give me better or cleaner flavour, could this have been nutrient-less & therefor causing it to stick? The Brew does tast good though even at the moment, but at around 3%alc?vol (after priming) it could be a little disapionting. Is there anything I can do to redeam it, or is it to late & therefor should I just bottle it & hope for a great tasting light beer (I really dont want to tip it). Any help would be greatly appreciated cheers guys. Chrisp

[svyturys]

Hi Chrisp,
Welcome to the forum.
At 1020 you would be a bit high as an FG. It looks to me as if you are stuck.
A couple of suggestions.
1) Give the fermenter a gentle swirl to get some of the yeast back up into suspension.

2) Bump up the temperature to about 20 / 21C to help reactivate the yeast. The stick on thermometers are not totally accurate and you could be sitting at 16...on the edge for the yeast.

The coopers lager with a brew enhancer will give you quite a decent beer as your first go.

You should finish at about 1012. I take it that you are using PET bottles..so bottle bombs are not such an issue.
I would try to get the FG to 1012 though before bottling.

Cheers

[Chrisp]

Thanks for the quick reply, Svyturys

I did actually bump the temp back up yesterday! no reaction yet.So I think I will go and give it a Swirl now.
Is it bad to take the lid off & give it a stir? How vigourous should I be with it?
Oh and I do have pet bottles. The bottle bomb thing, is that because it could still be fermenting.
cheers, hope to speak soon

[Bum]

Yes, bottle bombs are a possibility when you bottle before your brew has reached FG. Less of a concern with PET because they can (allegedly) take a bit more internal pressure and if they do go boom they are only messy, rather than potentially deadly. This does not mean there is any reason to become complacent when bottling with PET.

At this stage I'd definitely advise you to swirl rather than stir. Stirring is always an option but it does require a certain pedantry in relation to sanitation and at this early stage of the game I'd be trying to limit the amount of steps that could potentially infect your brew. If your temp is back up around 20 deg I reckon a good swirl should see you getting back in action.

[Chrisp]

Thanks for the info, Bum
Just come back from giving it a swirl, hard to know just how much it needs?
How long do you think I should wait to see a result, before trying something else.

[Bum]

Take a hydrometer reading tomorrow - if it has moved at all then it's steady as she goes. If there is no movement I'd suggest you perhaps report back here for some more advanced advice (i.e. advice from more advanced brewers than me).

I'm not sure you can swirl too much, though. As long as you're not splashing (and even then the jury seems to be out) you can't do too much damage at this stage of the game. If in doubt - give it another swirl. And make sure you keep the temp up (and as constant as possible).

Best of luck.

[Chrisp]

Thanks heaps mate, the advice has been great .
I dont think i splashed it. I hope not. But what is with that.

[Bum]

You'd know if you splashed it enough to possibly do anything detrimental. There is a school of thought that suggests that the adding of oxygen (by splashing, in this instance) once fermentation has begun can cause the yeast to increase the production of some undesirable by-products, another school claims it can increase the risk of infection. Not too sure I agree with either of these schools any more but having said that I don't go out of my way to do any splashing of my fermenting wort either. I wouldn't worry too much about that at this stage - the primary concern is getting your beer going again.

[Chrisp]

and so say all of us ( in terms of getting the beer going again). I am trying to keep my mind off the process so as not to get to eger and do anything before it needs to be done. I dont think i would have got oxegen into the wort, but I was concerned about all the scum etc I can see on the inside of the fermenter washing back into the wort.

[Chrisp]

another quick question, will swirlling it increase the sediment in the brew now? will I have to let it all settle back down for any extra time.

[svyturys]

Don't worry, it'll settle down again.
There are many brewers who leave the fermenter alone for a week after reaching FG, I'm one of them, to let things settle and give the yeast time to clean up after itself.
I have had brews that did not reach FG stage for three weeks or so. ( The exception rather than the rule) I still allow that week to settle before bottling. Settling will continue after the bottling stage.

Cheers

[wrighty]

Hi Chrisp,
Did you aerate your wort before pitching your yeast.?
Is your hydro correct? (should read1.000 in room temp water)
Are you giving hydro a spin to clear the bubbles from it?
You may be drawing off some of the yeast cake in your sample
always draw off about half a glass then sample.
Hope this helps.

[Chrisp]

Hi guys, just got home from home from work & checked the brew & after initiale exitment(Hydro reading of 1.016) I am now not to sure again as it seems to have gone back to 1.020 seems (odd) is this normale? I checked the hydro & it seems fine. Dosnt seem to be any action in the air lock still.
I have been spinning the hydro, though there does seem to be alot of bubles. Dont really know if I am drawing off the yeast cake, the sample seems to be clear no milkiness or sediment is that alright. Thanks for the heads up on on leaving it to clear up. I was a little worried after doing some reading that it might cause some funny tastes in the beer. Just had a thought, when i cleaned the hydro cylinder i got with the kit, after OG check i used hot water and it worped a bit. Could this be causing a funny reading. If so what else should i use.
Cheers for the responses svyturys & wrighty, keep em coming
I am but the beer mat ready to soak up your HB knowledge

[svyturys]

Hydro reading of 1.016) I am now not to sure again as it seems to have gone back to 1.020 seems (odd) is this normale?

OK, Chrisp,

You can't get a hydro reading of 16 then it go back to 20. If the hydrometer sank to 1016 then it must have clear enough fluid for it to do so. Gunk can be introduced into the system but it can't be taken out, if you get my drift. The 1016 reading can only be false if:-
1) You misread it.
2) If your hydrometer tube had water in it...which I doubt as you would have noticed it.

the sample seems to be clear no milkiness or sediment is that alright.

This seems Ok. Your 1020 might have come from a bit of gunk being swept through the tap. Also, it can be quite hard to read the hydrometer due to foam or the little fella leaning over but the significant readings are the next ones you take. No single reading can be taken as gospel.

i used hot water and it worped a bit. Could this be causing a funny reading. If so what else should i use.

Mmmmm. Is this the 1020 reading?

The tube must be wide enough to allow the hydrometer to float freely and straight enough to get an accurate reading. Also it helps it to be placed on a surface that is level. Yeah,it could cause a funny reading if it is warped.

You could use anything that has a a depth to accommodate the length of the hydrometer. A bucket would do but it would take a third of the beer out your fermenter for every sample.LOL.

You may need to get another tube unless there is something around the house that is narrow enough not to drain the fermenter.

Dosnt seem to be any action in the air lock still.

Don't worry about airlock action. It's not a good indicator of what is happening in the fermenter. Many of us have ditched the lid forever and opt for two sheets of gladwrap, at right angles to each other, and held in place by the rubber band from the original lid. Seeing what's happening is far better than listening for an airlock...the lid is there to keep the nasties out of your brew and the airlock is there to allow excess CO2 to escape. The CO2 eases itself out through the rubber band holding the gladwrap and also squeezes itself out past the rubber band and screw thread holding the lid down.

If you can see anything through the lid...do you still have krausen "foam" on top or has that cleared?

Keep us posted.

Cheers

[Bum]

(Hydro reading of 1.016) I am now not to sure again as it seems to have gone back to 1.020 seems

Is this the one sample changing over time? if so it may just be due to temperature change. Just a suggestion though, I'm not sure of the physics and how much of a temp change would be required to bring that about. Guys?

[Chrisp]

Their dosnt seem to be much "krausen" on the top, seems to have cleared. What does this mean?
With the hydro reading, I took a sample the temp said 20 deg. Tryed to draw it with little foam,to get rid of the rest i took a mouthfull (seems to work). Then placed hydro in with a bit of a spin got a bit more foam so I couldnt tell if it was reading 1.014 -1.016 so I gave it another spin & by the time I could read it properly again it was 1.020. Looks like I might be hunting for a new cylinder, I dont much like the idea of the bucket, LOL.
Cheers

[Anna]

Then placed hydro in with a bit of a spin got a bit more foam so I couldnt tell if it was reading 1.014 -1.016 so I gave it another spin & by the time I could read it properly again it was 1.020.

Hi Chrisp! I'm the resident female on the site (kinda newbie - up to brew no. 29), so I thought I'd give you a female perspective - the guys sometimes get a little carried away with technology I think! The same thing happens to me every time I take a hydro reading. The hydro seems to gradually climb up in points over a few minutes. So now I just have a couple of mouthfuls ('cause I can't wait), then pop the thingy in the tube, give it a twist and go away for 5 minutes (so I don't fret watching it gradually popping up!). Seems to me someone should invent a better type of hydrometer - the other problem is the way it seems to get "stuck" on the side of the tube. Fiddly damn thing!!

[warra48]

I do what Anna does.

I take my hydrometer sample from the top of my brew, using a sanitised turkey baster. This avoids the problem of drawing of the crud and yeast from the bottom near the tap, which complicates your readings.

I spin my hydrometer a few times and then walk away for 10 minutes. When I check it again, I can rely on the reading.
If you don't want to wait, take your sample, and pour it back and forth from your hydro tube and another container. This will dislodge any residual CO2 in the sample, allowing you to take an accurate reading.

It is my experience that kit brews tend to finish a little higher than the brews of those of us who brew All Grain. As an AG brewer, we have total control of our recipes, mash profiles, temperatures etc. We really have no idea what the kit makers did in their processes, so you're flying blind to an extent.

If you've followed all the advice in this thread, and you still can't get it to drop further, I'd go ahead and bottle it, using PET bottles. I'm sure you'll be OK.
I've bottled brews in the past with FG of 1.020 (into PET) and 1.018 (into glass) without subsequent problems.

[Chrisp]

Anna, classic post,(Made me laugh). I thought i was going insane wathching the hydrometer popping up in front of my eyes. Still a newbie ( I knew I spelt it wrong) after brew no.29, i do have a long way to go .Cheers for the help.
Warra, is taking the top off for a reading bad (exposing the wort to oxegen & bactiria etc). Anyway your both spot on leaving the hydrometer for a bit does work, certainly tackes the angst out of it.... Still got a reading 1.020. Is it worth transfering to another fermenter(racking ithink) for a bit before bottlin, or am i wasting my time with this batch. I have no way of controling a lower temp other than leaveing out (under cover & dark) in the cooler elements of the Vic weather. Is it true also that by having an OG of 1.040 & an FG of 1.020 I will only have finale alc% of about 3% after bottle priming.
Cheers

[Anna]

Glad we're helping Chrisp! And yes, I'm definitely still a newbie/newby. Just have a read of some of the "AG" brewers' posts - scary stuff!

Your 3% looks about right. What was your recipe? If you didn't use at least 1kg of fermentables (sugar, enhancer, whatever) your alcohol won't be much above that. (I'll go back and have a look at your previous posts - you might have already said...)

Here's a handy little link to a chart to work out your alcohol content. Don't forget to add 0.5% to account for the priming sugar.
http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/Starter ... 202005.pdf

I wouldn't bother racking your brew - I've never racked and never had a problem. I reckon it's only another way to infect your beer and from reading other posts, I think you lose a bit of the precious stuff in the process. Good luck with the next one!
Anna