Compost Smell in a Lager

[Bizier]

Hi all,

I just bottled a lager using an amount of dark spec grain, additional hops, a cerveza kit, and a kilo of LDME on top of the yeast cake from a Coopers Euro Lager can - just because it was the only lager yeast in the house.

It had a kind of decomposing smell like compost that I have only ever experienced once with beer, and that was with my one and only bottle of Orval.

I bottled this because I am moving house and needed to drain the fermenters, the lager had been in a mere 1 week primary and maybe 6 days in secondary - so part of me thinks it is just green lager flavours.

Is this cause for turfing beer, or should I just chill out?
Has anyone had a similar experience?

Cheers
Dan

[Chris]

By 'compost' do you mean sulphury?

If so, this is quite normal for many lager yeast strains. Ideally you'd let the beer sit to allow this to dissapate, but it'll still be ok. It'll generally lose this over time.

And if you've already put in the hard work of bottling your beer, why throw it out before you've let it mature, and tasted it?

[Bizier]

By 'compost' do you mean sulphury?

No, this is very different, perhaps a little like a lambic. It is not terrible, but there is a earthy pungency kind of like decomposing fruit.

And if you've already put in the hard work of bottling your beer, why throw it out before you've let it mature, and tasted it?

I was thinking the same thing, I have bottles, I may as well see how it turns out. Maybe I can add it to the undisowning thread after enough time.

[Chris]

It could be a high level of DMS. Did you boil your wort? If so, what method did you use to cool it?

Aside from that, it could be due to lag time. How long did it take your yeast to get going?

[Bizier]

Maybe a reeealy high level of DMS.

I did boil the liquor for a bit, but I think I ran out of gas and ended up steeping the hops for a while. To cool, I put it all in a 4L pot and sat in cold water and stirred gently.

Really, I wouldn't be surprised if it is an infection... the risk is pretty high.

I don't think that there was any lag time, as it went onto a week old primary yeast cake, from memory it took off like a rocket.

Thanks for investigating

[Kevnlis]

Sounds like a Brett infection to me. Though it could be due to autolysis if the yeast cake was sitting for one week with no nutrient at high temps. Is it more cow shed or vegemite?

[Bizier]

Thanks Kev,

Is it more cow shed or vegemite?

Honestly neither, more I guess tending to a smell associated with vinegar, though not vinegar directly (ie not the acidic burning smell).
If I had to choose, I would say cow shed, but it is not the smell, my family have cattle.

Room temp would not have exceeded 14 or maybe 15 deg C, I don't think it is autolysis, but I am just guessing.

[Kevnlis]

It is possible it is just volatiles from stressed yeast. When pitching to a trub it should be done immediately after racking the unfinished beer to secondary. Leaving the trub to sit, or using a trub from a finished batch can cause stress on the yeast and create problems like this, more so with lagers as it is much easier to pick up. Have you had a read of Palmers section on off flavours/smells? Maybe that could send you in the right direction?

[Bizier]

I don't wish to sound defensive here, but I racked one beer to secondary after 1 week of primary fermentation and pitched this wort on top within maybe 15minutes (fermenter sealed, though admittedly containing outside air). Is this kind of time frame enough to stress yeast considerably?

I have read palmer, but I think I will definitely have to read that section again.

I am going to CC a few 330ml bottles and monitor the progress.

Cheers for advice nutting this one
Dan

[Kevnlis]

Sorry it sounded like you were saying that the trub had sat for 1 week with no beer in the fermentor.

I really don't have any further suggestions for you mate. It is a bit hard not being able to see, smell, and taste the beer.

[Bizier]

It is cool Kev, thanks for the tips. I am hoping it is just due to the extremely green nature of the brew, premature (<2wks) bottling etc. It tasted OK, but had a definite funk that I hadn't heard described as I interpreted it.

Whatever the case, I learned something... just unsure as to exactly what 'til I try it mature.

Edit:
After a bit of research, it does sound like a brett infection - as that is the strain in Orval - I owe you a beer Kev.
I may have an Accidental Belgian Lambic Lager using Carafa 1 and Galaxy hops among other things - a bitza to be sure.

[Bizier]

I just thought I'd follow this up when I found it when searching for "vegemite"..

The brew was not infected now that it has had time to settle. Its is just a fantastically horrid recipe and fermentation control. I did not let it resolve itself before I bottled it.

Anyway, it is tasting better now, but is still pretty damn bad. My partner even thought it tasted clean and good, but I don't agree.