First Lager?

[mobydick]

Can someone please point me at a site or thread that will step me through making my first lager from extracts/kit. Made 17 ales - now doing my first lager.

[Kevnlis]

Same process you just need to hold a lower temp. Depending on what yeast you use that could be anywhere from 8-14C.

[mobydick]

Well I've used S-23, I think. I used the kit yeast that comes with the Coopers Euro Lager. I pitched the yeast at 24C, and now the fermenter is in the fridge at 10.5C I would like to dry hop as the primary fermentation dies off. Do I need a Diacetyl rest and when? Do I dry hop after the diacetyl rest? Thanks for your help Kev.

[Kevnlis]

Ok, ferment for 2 weeks, remove the fermentor from the fridge and leave it at room temp for 24-48 hours, then rack it to secondary onto your dry hops and lager at 6C for as long as you can hold out, or 4-8 weeks

[mobydick]

Is the racking necessary? I used to rack my ales but dont bother any more. I don't think it makes much difference. But do I need to do it with the lager to prevent autolysis?

[Kevnlis]

Yes, if you are going to lager I strongly recommend you rack! Autolysis is a definite concern if you are thinking of leaving it on the trub for that long...

[mobydick]

OK. Thanks for your help. Looking forward to my first lager - probably not my last either.

[The Carbonator]

Go the Lager!!!!

They take a bit of patience, but I reckon they are easily worth it.

A couple of things I have learned about lagers:

- Use a quality yeast. Preferably liquid.......you'll never use coopers dry "Lager" yeast again!

- Use as much grain as possible, in place of extract. You will get an ok beer with all extract, but the more grain you add, the better the flavour. In lagers, the shitty Kit/extract flavours have nowhere to hide. In fact, just use all grain

- You need to rack.

- Because lagers are more delicate/subtle than ales, its easy to over-hop them......leave exessive amounts of hops to APAs and IPAs.

Good luck

[drsmurto]

<snip>
- Because lagers are more delicate/subtle than ales, its easy to over-hop them......leave exessive amounts of hops to APAs and IPAs.

Even i agree with a lower hop schedule!

And as far as lagering goes, colder is better. If you can get it down to 0-1C it even better, just dont freeze the beer (if you plan on bottling).

[The Carbonator]

yeah, thats a good point.

I have turned my beer to slushy, twice.

Was a bit scary.

I must have been lucky, and caught them while it was only icy on top, becasue those little babies gased up just fine in their bottles.

[mobydick]

Thanks - I'll go easy on the dry hops. I have partial mashed this first brew with a kilo of pilsner malt and a handful of crystal wheat and torrified wheat.

I'll rack this batch on the week-end, onto some dry hops (10g Hallertau?). So now I need to lager it. How long do I need to lager it before I bottle it? After I bottle it, does it need more lagering? When will it be good to drink? Now that it's fermented at 10ish degrees, do I drop the temp further for the lagering period?

[drsmurto]

Ok, no takers so i'll have a stab at answering your question.

I am not a big fan of the diacetyl rest that many say is necessary. That said, it depends on teh yeast, how long its been in primary for and at what temp you pitched. Trough Lolly has written some very informative posts on this topic that i am too lazy to find for you.

My technique (and this is only one of dozens you will be told about) is to slowly drop the temp a few degC a day until you get as cold as your fridge gets. 0-1 is best, i have read articles that suggest 2 weeks lagering at 1C are equivalent to 6 weeks at 4-5.

Lagering prob need to be done for a few weeks at least, longer the better of course. Once oyu bottle you dont need to lager, just let it carb, chill and drink.

that said, i have let a batch carb up for 4 weeks at room temp and then put as many into the fridge as i could fit and let them sit there until i work my way thru them.

HTH
DrSmurto

[mobydick]

Ok thanks Doc. Having difficulties seeing the difference between lagering in the fermenter and lagering in the bottle. I'm thinking that the sooner it's in the bottle the less chance of infection. So if it has fermented out now, and I need to rack, why not bulk prime and bottle, lager for 6 weeks or so, then take the bottles out of the fridge so they will carbonate, then chill and drink?

[rwh]

Having difficulties seeing the difference between lagering in the fermenter and lagering in the bottle.

From this thread:

There are plenty of reasons I can think of that aging will be different in different size vessels. In a larger vessel you will have:

1. Lower surface area to volume ratio. This will reduce temperature variation, overall exposure to light, exposure of the beer to the sides of the vessel (and any residual cleaning products or impurities thereon). All good things.

2. Less headspace per volume. The larger volume bottles have the same headspace as the smaller ones. Perhaps this leads to less oxidation, or less aerobic metabolism from the yeast. Again, good.

3. Different population dynamics. There is more yeast. Therefore there may be a greater total number viable yeast cells. Or something.

Add to that:

4. Once you bottle, priming sugar is present which means that the yeast have to switch from the conditioning phase back to the attenuative phase. More on that in Chapter 8 of How to Brew. I recommend you read the entire chapter.

[mobydick]

Thanks. Haven't read 'how to brew' since I started six months ago. A great resource for beginners, but also a great resource to go back to. The lager is lagering in the fermenter. I racked it off. Not as cold as I'd hoped - the fridge is only managing to chill it to 7 degrees. So I guess I'll forget about it for a while.