D saaz Pale Ale

[brew.exe]

Anyone got a recipe for a d saaz pale ale?
I haven't used this hop before, and I want to only use d saaz in the recipe.
I was thinking maybe trying this.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 21.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 9.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 35.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.45 kg Maris Otter Malt (Bairds) (5.3 SRM) Grain 89.0 %
0.30 kg Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 6.0 %
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.0 %
30.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (50 min) Hops 18.3 IBU
30.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (30 min) Hops 14.8 IBU
10.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (10 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
10.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (2 min) Hops 0.5 IBU
10.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (Dry Hop) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale


Total Grain Weight: 5.00 kg

[Kevnlis]

I am not sure MO and D Saaz will work very well together but I have not tried it. If you are familiar with both flavours and think they will work well together than go for it. Will be interesting to hear how it turns out.

[brew.exe]

The thing is that I have never tried D saaz, so I was hopping to get some feedback on the recipe. What do you think I should use instead of the MO?

[Kevnlis]

Riwaka, formerly known as D Saaz, does have most of the character of any of the Saaz family in bitterness but has a very distinct flavour and aroma. It got a strong citrusy fruity flavour that is nice with a pilsner or pale ale. MO to me is more nutty and suits Goldings or the like in an English real ale or bitter.

I would keep the recipe as you have it and use a light ale malt like Galaxy or a true pilsner malt like Weyermanns Bo Pils.

[drsmurto]

I second the Pilsner Malt idea but thats only my opinion having read up on D Saaz on Ross' site 'strong grapefruit citrus character'.

Not to blow my own trumpet but i reckon it would work well in this recipe subbing the amarillo for D Saaz!

2.40 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 56.60 %
0.80 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 18.87 %
0.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC) Grain 18.87 %
0.24 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 5.66 %
20.00 gm Northern Brewer [9.10 %] (60 min) Hops 22.2 IBU
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (10 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (5 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
0.40 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -

Thats for 20L, 75% eff, 31 IBUs.

[Chris]

A pilsner malt is my recommendation too. A nice pale malt.

[Heals]

D-saaz is pretty potent with flavor that's for sure - used it in my last high-grav brew and it came out strong as bolts!

I agree with the fruity comment too.

It's like regular saaz on roids.

[Kevnlis]

It is a very good hop variety, don't get scared off it. I just do not think it suits MO. Change the malt and enjoy the hops. Make an ESB for next batch with the MO

[Ross]

What have you guys got against MO in an ale of this type, it's fantastic
& my malt of choice. If you want a beer with little malt character, stick to making lagers

Anyway, had a fellow brewer bring around a bottle of all D Saaz ale yesterday - malt bill, 85% MO, 10% wheat, 5% carared.
Bloody beautiful - The aroma/flavour character was mainly peach with a hint of tangerine zest. I'll be updating the flavour profile on my site shortly.

Edit: Brew.exe, your recipe looks great IMO, just back the IBU's off to 30 max. The beer i tasted was bittered to just 25 IBU's & had perfect balance; i don't think it would have handled much more.

cheers Ross

[brew.exe]

Thanks for everyone's help.
The pilsner grain does sound good so I am going to mix both of the grains together, and see how it turns out. I have also dropped the bitterness down to about 30 ibu's.
Here is the new recipe.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 21.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 8.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 29.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg JW Pilsner (3.0 SRM) Grain 59.4 %
1.50 kg Maris Otter Malt (Bairds) (5.3 SRM) Grain 29.7 %
0.30 kg Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.0 %
30.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (40 min) Hops 16.8 IBU
20.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (30 min) Hops 9.8 IBU
10.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (10 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
10.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (2 min) Hops 0.5 IBU
10.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale

Total Grain Weight: 5.05 kg

[Kevnlis]

Go for it dude. I did a D Saaz partial at my FIL's place on the weekend. The hops had a strong paw paw aroma with a bit of citrus and maybe some stone fruit or passionfruit. I used some Vienna, Caramunich II and a touch of Choc in a Coopers Draught kit. Let us know how the MO comes out.

[Trough Lolly]

Thanks for everyone's help.
The pilsner grain does sound good so I am going to mix both of the grains together, and see how it turns out. I have also dropped the bitterness down to about 30 ibu's.
Here is the new recipe.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 21.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 8.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 29.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg JW Pilsner (3.0 SRM) Grain 59.4 %
1.50 kg Maris Otter Malt (Bairds) (5.3 SRM) Grain 29.7 %
0.30 kg Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.0 %
30.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (40 min) Hops 16.8 IBU
20.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (30 min) Hops 9.8 IBU
10.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (10 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
10.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (2 min) Hops 0.5 IBU
10.00 gm D Saaz [5.60%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale


Total Grain Weight: 5.05 kg

Sorry to be a PITA, but you've got a very nice lager, rather than an ale, recipe there. If you want a Saaz based ale, I would use 3kg MO and 1.5kg Munich rather than pilsener malt (I did a golden ale recently and found the 50% Weyermann Pils added too much sweetness to the ale) and keep the IBU's between 25 to 30...

And out of curiosity, is there a particular reason why your first hop addition occurs 20 minutes into the boil?

Cheers,
TL

[Ross]

Sorry to be a PITA, but you've got a very nice lager, rather than an ale, recipe there. If you want a Saaz based ale, I would use 3kg MO and 1.5kg Munich rather than pilsener malt (I did a golden ale recently and found the 50% Weyermann Pils added too much sweetness to the ale) and keep the IBU's between 25 to 30...

Cheers,
TL

Glad to see someone agrees with me

Cheers Ross

[brew.exe]

And out of curiosity, is there a particular reason why your first hop addition occurs 20 minutes into the boil?

There's no particular reason to why I did this, it happened when I was reworking the recipe to bring down the ibu's. I know I could have just reduced the amount of hops that I used. I am still new to AG and haven't tried pale and pilsner malt together yet, so I want to give it a go just for my own personal experience, but I will cut it back to about 30-35%. Don't know if I should leave the Crystal Malt in or not?

[Trough Lolly]

No probs - It was just curiosity, not a criticism. I'd still recommend you add your bittering addition at the start, not the 20 minute mark otherwise you will find it harder than normal to maintain your bittering levels, despite what your recipe software suggests.
I'd leave the crystal as is - you've got a fair few grams of Saaz there and the crystal should balance nicely - assuming you use MO for the bulk of the base malt, rather than the noticeably sweeter pils malt.

Anyway, brew on, brew hard and let us know how it turns out! I'm tempted to brew your "lager" recipe with some S-189, and replace the crystal malt with a kilo of Munich II - I'd like to see how it turns out - the MO should make an interesting flavour addition alongside the 3kg of pils and kilo of Munich II malt - at the risk of appearing snobbish, I use Wey Pils and dark Munich but the aim's the same!!

Cheers,
TL

[drsmurto]

Ive started using wey pils in my APAs and golden ales. I save the MO/ale malts for ESBs, IPA and the darks.

[brew.exe]

TL, I didn't take it as a criticism. I also wanted to originally do this as a lager, but ever since the kegs moved into the fridge I cant bring myself to kick them out. I want to get a chest freezer for the kegs, so that I can do lagers in the fridge all year round.
I would have liked to have used the Wey Pils but the LHBS didn't have any in stock.

[Trough Lolly]

Fair call...having the ability to brew lagers all year round is great and as for the availability of grains, I only buy base malt in 25kg sacks for that very reason...

Cheers,
TL

[brew.exe]

Had a sample of it today straight out of the fermenter, it's been 1 week since I did the batch and it tasting very nice. I cut the Pilsner back to 35% and it has still added a fair bit of sweetness to it. I think I will just dry hop in the keg.

[brew.exe]

Been drinking this over the last week and must say it has turned out great!!!
The pilsner grain has worked well with this hop, and has not made the beer overly sweet, I did bring the percentage down on TL advice to about 35% and cutting back the ibu’s to about 30 has the bitterness spot on for this beer. I also used a combination of Maris Otter and Joe White ale malt. I will post the final recipe I used.

Big thanks for everyone’s input.