Using Bottle 'Dregs' as Yeast

[DonMI6]

I have read a couple of posts on the forum from people who (if I understand correctly) simply poured the last inch or so from a bottle of Coopers and found their brews fermenting successfully.

Does this really work? If so, why doesn't everyone do it. I have just tried it myself, literally a few minutes ago, & am eagerly awaiting the result (and, to be honest, expecting to need to pitch a packet yeast this time tomorrow:-))

Anybody tried this? What are the pros & cons. It seems to good to be true!!

[OldBugman]

Make a starter out of the dregs of the bottle.

[lethaldog]

You would generally make a starter out of the dregs to reactivate, im not sure how just pouring in the dregs will go but with that small amount you will probably need to leave it for a few days for it to start, so dont panic if it hasnt started by tommorow just let it sit a couple of days at a steady 25-26*C untill it starts then drop it back to about 20*C to ferment

[DonMI6]

Yeah I realise that the dregs are usually used to make a starter, but the simplicity of pouring the dregs straight from the bottle appeals to a lazy sod like myself

Mind you, I did have to empty a couple of stubbies of Coopers pale ale

[lethaldog]

Yeah I realise that the dregs are usually used to make a starter, but the simplicity of pouring the dregs straight from the bottle appeals to a lazy sod like myself

Mind you, I did have to empty a couple of stubbies of Coopers pale ale

It should still start in theory, just wont start as quick, just leave it for a few days and see what happens, you could always pitch again after this

[Boonie]

I have read a couple of posts on the forum from people who (if I understand correctly) simply poured the last inch or so from a bottle of Coopers and found their brews fermenting successfully.

Does this really work? If so, why doesn't everyone do it. I have just tried it myself, literally a few minutes ago, & am eagerly awaiting the result (and, to be honest, expecting to need to pitch a packet yeast this time tomorrow:-))

Anybody tried this? What are the pros & cons. It seems to good to be true!!

I have done 2 in the last couple of months, but both with starters.....IE see if it will regenerate before tossing into brew.

I have had one work perfect and one was off, so I did not throw that one into my brew.

50% strike rate so far.

[rwh]

Yeah. The idea of the starter is to increase the population of the yeast so that it can start fermenting at a decent rate. Also the higher population of yeast tends to ensure that more cells remain viable later in the fermentation process, resulting in a lower FG.

The starter promotes the division of the yeast because of the presence of oxygen. Yeast can produce more energy from each molecule of sugar in the presence of oxygen (aerobic respiration) than they can in its absence (anaerobic respiration). They also don't produce any alcohol, but this is beside the point. The oxygen also tends to mean that the yeast deplete their glycogen supplies in order to divide.

Anyway, it's common practice when starting from the dregs in the bottom of a bottle to step the yeast up over a few different starters. That way, you introduce oxygen into the mix several times, creating the right conditions for rapid cell division multiple times. That way you have enough yeast for a fast and complete ferment.

In practice I'm rarely patient enough though If you oxygenate your wort well, then you should be OK, just might have to pitch some yeast towards the end to complete the job.

[nt]

Drink more beer and pour more the dregs in.

[rwh]

Well, there aren't that many viable cells in the dregs, so yeah as many as possible. I used the dregs from 3 longnecks when I did mine.

Just make sure that you pour the beer out into a glass. You don't want the bacteria from your mouth, just from the bottle

[DonMI6]

Yeah, but did it work? can it be done?

Has anyone actually poured a couple of stubbies (or a longneck) into their brew & had a result?

[rwh]

I reckon it can be done, though I've never done it. I'd wait at least 48 hours before passing judgement. I created a starter for mine, but I pitched it after only 10 hours or so so it probably didn't do much. Mine was fermenting slowly after 36 hours and really took off after 48.

Did you aerate your wort? This can significantly affect how quickly the yeast multiply and thus the speed of your ferment.

[chris.]

Yeah. The idea of the starter is to increase the population of the yeast so that it can start fermenting at a decent rate. Also the higher population of yeast tends to ensure that more cells remain viable later in the fermentation process, resulting in a lower FG.

The starter promotes the division of the yeast because of the presence of oxygen. Yeast can produce more energy from each molecule of sugar in the presence of oxygen (aerobic respiration) than they can in its absence (anaerobic respiration). They also don't produce any alcohol, but this is beside the point. The oxygen also tends to mean that the yeast deplete their glycogen supplies in order to divide.

Anyway, it's common practice when starting from the dregs in the bottom of a bottle to step the yeast up over a few different starters. That way, you introduce oxygen into the mix several times, creating the right conditions for rapid cell division multiple times. That way you have enough yeast for a fast and complete ferment.

Good points rwh.

Another point to remember is that as the yeast is reproducing so is any unwanted bacteria (& possibly wild yeasts).

If you are pitching any amount of live/viable yeast, even a small amount, it should 'work' (if your refering to fermentation starting) given time. But I doubt the fermentation will be as clean as it could be.
I myself be reluctant to try it. I'd opt for stepping up over a starter or 2.
If looking for something easier I'd be more inclined to just use a dried yeast.

[rwh]

On that point, does anyone know if the Coopers homebrew yeasts are significantly different to the yeast they use in their in-house brews? I'm half-way through fermenting a CSA right now (using a starter from 3 CSA longies as I mentioned), and I can tell you that the yeast from the bottle ferments in a very similar way to the HB yeast (i.e. it sits quiet for a bit, then goes absolutely NUTS for about 2 days then tapers off quickly and bubbles slowly for a few more days).

I know that they use the same yeast for the Pale Ale and Sparkling (and possibly their others), but I'm not sure if it's a different strain to their homebrew yeast. I suspect it's fairly closely related if it is different.

[gregb]

I recall reading on the Coopers Club forum that the yeast in the kits is different to the yeast they use for the commercial brews. The reason given was that it was that they were having trouble drying the commercial yeast.

They have at other times stated that it is the same yeast used in Mild, Pale, Sparkling, Stout and the Vintage Ales.

Cheers,
Greg

[drtom]

It is no coincidence that while there are a zillion liquid yeasts on the market, there are only a handful of dry ones. Most of the liquid ones don't dehydrate and remain viable. Given the relative ease of handling, storing and transporting yeasts, I think you'll find that it's not for want of trying.

If you google around a bit, you'll find an interview with one of the yeast lab guys (I forget which), talking about the trials and tribulations of trying to dry various strains.

When did saflager come out? I understand it was relatively recent, compared to the safale yeasts.

T.

[Dogger Dan]

It can be done but you need to make a starter otherwise it won't be as good as it can be. Something I have learnt over the past few years is to use a big starter, it doesn't put pressure on the yeast

As an aside, many of the yeasts in the bottles are not the same as the ones the brewery ferments with.

Dogger

[NickMoore]

I think I can recall that Geoff (of Oliver and Geoff) fermented a brew by just pouring in a bottle of Cooper's. Definitely read about somebody doing this and think it was in Geoff's brewing notes on this site. From memory it worked out fine.

[rwh]

You can do all these dodgy things, and sometimes it might work out fine, but really if you want to be assured of a short lag time and compelte attenuation, you should not be underpitching (having said that, I'm often a bit too excited about brewing to make a starter).

Palmer, to the rescue as usual:

The key to a good fermentation is lots of strong healthy yeast- yeast that can get the job done before going dormant due to depleted resources, rising alcohol levels, and old age. As noted, the reproduction rate is slower without oxygen. At some point in the fermentation cycle of the beer, the rate of yeast reproduction is going to fall behind the rate of yeast dormancy. By providing optimum conditions for yeast growth and reproduction in the wort initially, we can ensure that this rate transition will not occur until after the beer has become fully attenuated.

Worts that are underpitched or poorly aerated will ferment slowly or incompletely due to lack of viable yeast. Experienced brewers make a big point about aerating the wort and building up a yeast starter because these practices virtually guarantee enough yeast to do the job well.

[drtom]

It's a slight shame that the precise attenuation is hard to control.

If you knew that pitching *this* many grams of dry yeast (or equivalent liquid yeast), into *that* much wort would lead to a certain attenuation, all those threads about kit cider and ginger beer being too dry and tasting of artificial sweeteners would go away - you just pitch a relatively lesser amount of yeast, allow it to ferment to the desired level of incompletion, and away you go. <sigh> No artificial sweeteners necessary, sweetness precisely controlled.

T.

[Dogger Dan]

Not Sure about that one drtom.

Yeast will devour all sugars that it can given the oppertunity. You can stop the fermentation by killing the yeast and living with sweetness.

After fermentation, the sweetness that you taste is from the unfermentables and has little to do with the size you pitched, be it a 7 g pack or a 4 litre starter. If it goes, it goes, there is simply less pressure on the yeast from excessive budding if you pitch large which in turn leads to thicker cell walls and thus less decompartmentalisation of the cells from ruptured cell walls.

Lactose for example is a sugar but unfermentable by beer yeasts. Maltodextrins, which aid in head retention are also sugars but are sparingly fermentable so to speak unless you have a really aggressive yeast.

This is also why you add enzyme packs for dry beers as the enzymes break down the unfermentables into something fermentable. The trade off is often thin watery beers, although they finish dry.

Dogger