No Rinse sterilisers

bilgerat · Post by **bilgerat** » Thursday Mar 08, 2012 11:28 pm

I have been washing my fermenter, mash tun, march pump, hoses etc in Tricleanium which is an Alkaline salt based cleaner, I am then using Napisan as my steriliser, everything then gets a good rinse before I start brewing.
What are other people using as a steriliser I have tried to get Iodophor from my local HBS but Im told its hard to get a hold of??
I would prefer to try a no rinse steriliser if I can get one.
Im in Perth.

warra48 · Post by **warra48** » Friday Mar 09, 2012 5:13 am

Let's get one thing straight, you basically cannot sterilise all your gear in a home set up.
However, you can sanitise it, which gets rid of the bulk of any nasties to the extent the good guys outperform the nasties.

Iodophor is an effective no rinse sanitiser, and I've used it quite extensively. The one difficulty with it is that its potency once mixed into solution is that it only lasts as long as the solution retains its colour, and that's usually not much more than a day or so. Therefore you need to mix a new batch everytime you need to use it.

My preferred no rinse sanitiser is StarSan. It is acid based, and once it's mixed, it retains it effectiveness. It's very economical, as you use very little, 1.5 mil to 1 litre water, so a bottle of it lasts a long time.
I bought mine from CraftBrewer, link for StarSan here: http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4332

Bum · Post by **Bum** » Friday Mar 09, 2012 6:33 am

Yeah, I use StarSan too. It is pretty great.

The reason for my post, however, is that I don't believe Napisan/sodium percarbonate based cleaners work effectively as sanitisers. They're really good at cleaning (I use no-name napisan in my own brewery) but you still should use a sanitiser.

Having said that - after doing two really good cleans, as you do, the risk of infection could already be very low. I see sanitisers as more of an insurance policy than something that must be had. Having said that, I'd never drive a car nor live in a house without insurance. New brewers should not see this as advice that it is okay to skip a sanitising step, is what I mean.

rotten · Post by **rotten** » Friday Mar 09, 2012 7:49 am

+ 1 for Starsan.

Mix it in a spray bottle and simply cover everything you use. I then rotate whatever I just covered to make sure it's all been done. Then let dry as much as possible before use. This may not be the right way to go but it works for me.

hyjak · Post by **hyjak** » Friday Mar 09, 2012 10:46 am

Have used in the past, Brewcrafts Brewshield, mild bleach solutions, Peroxide solution and am currently using Morgans Sanitize. Will be switching to Starsan or Iodophor when this little bottle runs out.

Bleach is good if you run out of sanitiser the night before or on brew day but it does have to be rinsed, good alternative if it makes the difference between brewing and not.

Tipsy · Post by **Tipsy** » Friday Mar 09, 2012 1:01 pm

warra48 wrote:Iodophor is an effective no rinse sanitiser, and I've used it quite extensively. The one difficulty with it is that its potency once mixed into solution is that it only lasts as long as the solution retains its colour, and that's usually not much more than a day or so.

I found that if you keep it in the fridge it retains the colour for over a week, out of the fridge, as above.

bilgerat · Post by **bilgerat** » Friday Mar 09, 2012 10:11 pm

OK thanks for the replies I will look around for Starsan or Iodophor my LHBS doesnt stock either , does anyone else in Perth use this, if so where do you get it from??

barrelboy · Post by **barrelboy** » Saturday Mar 10, 2012 11:27 am

Hi, I couldn't get it in Adelaide so I bought it on line from interstate. Postage was about 12 bucks. Its well worth it and such a good non rinse. I believe in the non rinse as a sanitizer as with rinsing ones the result is only as good as the water you rinse with.
Cheers BB

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sunday Mar 11, 2012 9:02 pm

I'm a bit old school and use bleach (Coles no name Bleach - about $2 for 2 litres). I put a splash in the fermenter and then fill with hot water. I then drain it and rinse 3 times. Bottles are a pretty similar process - I usually group by 4 longnecks and 6 stubbies. A splash goes in the first one of each group followed by boiling water. This is swished around and transferred to the next bottle. Once all bottles have been bleached I rinse twice. There's probably better (and quicker) ways of doing this but I put on some music and find the repetitiveness quite soothing.

rotten · Post by **rotten** » Monday Mar 12, 2012 10:27 pm

When I said something similar I was rightly told that bleach or sodium percarbonate are Cleaners, Not Sanitisers. You may have just been lucky until now, I had to find out the hard way and haven't had any dramas since adding starsan to the regime.

Cheers

drsmurto · Post by **drsmurto** » Tuesday Mar 13, 2012 8:14 pm

Small correction from an anally retentive scientist.

Bleach is a sanitiser, in high enough concentrations it's a steriliser.

Sodium percarbonate (napisan) is an amazing cleaner but a sanitiser it is not.

I use starsan or my homemade version. No rinse sanitisers just make simpler.

aydanrogers · Post by **aydanrogers** » Thursday Mar 15, 2012 4:45 pm

I only use iodophor and I haven't had any dramas yet.

melykabeer · Post by **melykabeer** » Saturday May 26, 2012 10:51 am

Im crazy but I use bleach as a no rinse sanitiser. The guy who made starsan was interviewed on brew radio talking about using bleach to sanitise. If you use the right amount + use vinegar to bring down the PH the bleach will kill germs better. I go with 2ml of bleach and 2ml of vinegar per litre since I use a 30ml fermenter I just use a 1/4cup (60ml) of each into the fermenter as its filling although you have to be careful not to get bleach into direct contact with vingar it makes some terrible fumes. I fill the fermenter and just chuck everything in i want clean then just dump it all down the drain after a few minutes. When bottling I do the same thing filling each bottle submersing it in the filled fermenter then emptying the bottle back into the fermenter using the same liquid to sanitise enough bottles.

bullfrog · Post by **bullfrog** » Saturday May 26, 2012 11:23 am

melykabeer wrote: since I use a 30ml fermenter

Do you bottle in shot glasses?

drsmurto · Post by **drsmurto** » Saturday May 26, 2012 6:42 pm

bullfrog wrote:
melykabeer wrote: since I use a 30ml fermenter
Do you bottle in shot glasses?

One shot glass....

bullfrog · Post by **bullfrog** » Saturday May 26, 2012 8:09 pm

drsmurto wrote:
bullfrog wrote:
melykabeer wrote: since I use a 30ml fermenter
Do you bottle in shot glasses?
One shot glass....

Per batch...

With batches of that size, you could do 30 brews per shelf of the ferm fridge!

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Sunday May 27, 2012 3:12 pm

bilgerat wrote:OK thanks for the replies I will look around for Starsan or Iodophor my LHBS doesnt stock either , does anyone else in Perth use this, if so where do you get it from??

Hi matey Roy at TWOC http://www.homebru.com.au/ has both or at least that is where I got it from. But I believe there is now some kind of customs issue with Starsan in Australia now and it has become a banned substance to airfreight now or the likes?
Does anyone know if that is actually the case?, because I remember hearing something about it round the traps recently.

melykabeer · Post by **melykabeer** » Monday May 28, 2012 12:12 am

hahaha funny one bullfrog! Must have been the case of not enough home brew drunk on my behalf. 30ml batches hmm maybe if you triple the fermentables may not be too shabby shots

ballantyne · Post by **ballantyne** » Tuesday Jan 22, 2013 2:00 pm

melykabeer wrote:Im crazy but I use bleach as a no rinse sanitiser. The guy who made starsan was interviewed on brew radio talking about using bleach to sanitise. If you use the right amount + use vinegar to bring down the PH the bleach will kill germs better. I go with 2ml of bleach and 2ml of vinegar per litre since I use a 30ml fermenter I just use a 1/4cup (60ml) of each into the fermenter as its filling although you have to be careful not to get bleach into direct contact with vingar it makes some terrible fumes. I fill the fermenter and just chuck everything in i want clean then just dump it all down the drain after a few minutes. When bottling I do the same thing filling each bottle submersing it in the filled fermenter then emptying the bottle back into the fermenter using the same liquid to sanitise enough bottles.

I also listened to this podcast, and the guy seemed very knowledgeable and believable, but a couple of things he said didn't add up to me, probably because of the wierd imperial units he was using.

He said he was aiming for 80ppm for a no-rinse solution, and this is supported by http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare ... 116web.pdf which recommends no higher than 200ppm.

The figures given on the podcast seem to add up to around 381ppm.

Another issue: my bottle of White King says 4.2% hypochlorite, giving 4% available chlorine, degrading to 2% at use by date. The podcast guy is working with 5% available chlorine.

The figures you give of 10ml of 4% bleach in 5L, with 10ml of vinegar, giving 80ppm and a lowered pH seem right enough if the bleach is brand new.

Few useful hints I've read (and don't vouch for)
- Strength of solution is age-dependent
- Get cheap bleach with no perfumes, and best with no hydroxide, so you can get the pH lower with your vinegar
- Use cold water
- If you're rinsing, use hot water

Beware fumes. NEVER add vinegar to bleach without hugely diluting the bleach with water first.

barls · Post by **barls** » Tuesday Jan 22, 2013 9:36 pm

this is the best one ive listened to on home made sterilisers
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The- ... lie-Talley

homebrewandbeer.com