Stepping up starters

[modo]

A quick question when your stepping up starters eg 100ml 500ml 1000ml and so on do you after 2/3 days of fermentation keep all the beer and pour into the next step up, or do you decant off as much beer as you can and just pour the yeast slurry into the next step. Because I think the DME is spent {not to sure on that one.}

[drsmurto]

Its up to you MODO.

I tend to pour off the beer and only pitch the slurry but that takes a bit more time so if i am rushed i dont worry about it.

[dregs]

Good questions modo, I have another. Is stepping necessary, can the starter be started in a 2or5ltr flask?

dregs

[drsmurto]

dregs - it depends on how much yeast you have to begin with.

If you have an activator or propagator pack of liquid yeast then you can pitch them into a 2+L starter without stepping them up.

If you are trying to culture up the yeast from a bottle of beer then you need to step up otherwise you will be under-pitching and you are likely to cause stress to the yeast which results in off flavours and unhappy yeast.

[modo]

Thank's boys. Doc I sent you a email don't know if you got it

[dregs]

dregs - it depends on how much yeast you have to begin with.

If you have an activator or propagator pack of liquid yeast then you can pitch them into a 2+L starter without stepping them up.

If you are trying to culture up the yeast from a bottle of beer then you need to step up otherwise you will be under-pitching and you are likely to cause stress to the yeast which results in off flavours and unhappy yeast.

Thanks Dr, that makes sense.

[drsmurto]

Thank's boys. Doc I sent you a email don't know if you got it

When?

Easier to PM me, the email i have registered here is not one i check all that often and definitely cant check at work

[warra48]

I am building a starter of WY1469 at present of a split I took from a starter I made about 4 weeks ago.

I prefer to build my starters incrementally, as I think it gives a better result.

I have a litre starter wort, which is being aerated, as I type, with my aquarium pump. I didn't use the airstone, as it would froth it up way to quick, so it's just working with the pump and hose. I'll let it go until this evening, and the yeasties should be very happily into multiplying mode by then. Will then step it up tomorrow to about 2.5 litres total volume, before crash chilling and pitching the slurry only.

Remember that the prime objective of a starter is to multiply the yeast. Yeast will continue to multiply so long as they have oxygen and a nice comfortable warm environment. Once that's exhausted they'll switch to anaerobic mode and start fermenting your wort. There's a bit of overlap in these functions, but the moral is yeast prefer multiplying to working.

[drsmurto]

I am building a starter of WY1469 at present of a split I took from a starter I made about 4 weeks ago.

I prefer to build my starters incrementally, as I think it gives a better result.

I have a litre starter wort, which is being aerated, as I type, with my aquarium pump. I didn't use the airstone, as it would froth it up way to quick, so it's just working with the pump and hose. I'll let it go until this evening, and the yeasties should be very happily into multiplying mode by then. Will then step it up tomorrow to about 2.5 litres total volume, before crash chilling and pitching the slurry only.

Remember that the prime objective of a starter is to multiply the yeast. Yeast will continue to multiply so long as they have oxygen and a nice comfortable warm environment. Once that's exhausted they'll switch to anaerobic mode and start fermenting your wort. There's a bit of overlap in these functions, but the moral is yeast prefer multiplying to working.

Don't we all

[gregb]

Every office needs a math nerd.

[Bachy__]

Does aerating increase the risk of contamination...? I sanitize everything very rigorously and Im a bit concerned about pumping germy air into my sanitized yeast containers.

[warra48]

Does aerating increase the risk of contamination...? I sanitize everything very rigorously and Im a bit concerned about pumping germy air into my sanitized yeast containers.

You can't sterilise air, so the best you can do is to eliminate as much as you can any airborn dust, pollen etc. Doing that I've never had a problem.

Here's a link to one solution: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-9-2.html

[drsmurto]

You dont HAVE to aerate like Warra altho it does maximise growth which is what making a starter is all about.

I normally shake the starter and then plonk it on the stirplate, crank it to full speed and walk away.

If you dont have a stirplate, shake the starter every time you walk past it.

[warra48]

Here's a picture of why we step up starters.
The yeast layer in the small split (in a 250 ml bottle) is nowhere near enough to ferment a batch.
However, the layer of fresh yeast in the starter (in a 3 litre bottle) certainly is. And the layer is not all settled yet either, as it was only stepped up late yesterday afternoon. When I crash chill it, I expect it to still get a little higher.
And, if you don't want to use all of it, you can save some of it in another split, and do it all over again.
Certainly makes for economical brewing, even allowing for the price of liquid yeast compared to dry yeast.

[dregs]

Great info and pictures guys.

Notha question. What do you feed your starters with, I have used light dry malt from HBS, but could I use the tins of malt extract you can find in supermarkets?

cheers

[drsmurto]

have a read of the sticky at the top of making beer i wrote

[dregs]

yeah I read that, just wondering if the starter feed has to quality LDME or just the stuff they sell at the SM

[warra48]

yeah I read that, just wondering if the starter feed has to quality LDME or just the stuff they sell at the SM

You can use any of those.

I use the Coopers .5kg packs, because I can sneak those in when doing the supermarket shopping, and they don't come out of my brewing budget.

You can also use cheap cans if that's what you want to do, but you don't want a full can, of course. However, there's no reason you can't decant it into a freezer friendly sealable containers, and freeze them in usable size lots.

And certainly, Dr S' sticky is well worth reading and following: http://www.homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8705

[dregs]

Thanks guys, great help.

Cheers

[drsmurto]

I use the Coopers .5kg packs, because I can sneak those in when doing the supermarket shopping, and they don't come out of my brewing budget.

Tried that.

Got shown a yellow card......