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I'm probably going to bottle my Dark Matter ale on thursday night...

I would really like to get the jump on the job by sanitising the bottles early...

If I sanitsed the bottles and placed them top down in a sanitised plastic tub how far ahead do you think I can sanitise them?

Thanks to Jeeves......I wouldnt trust that sanitised items that have been left closed and wet will stay sanitised indefinately and you might want to get them filled fairly soon.
I think a week with a sulphite or sodium met. solution are completely within the limits of OK, but you'll be the first to know if it isn't.

MHD wrote:I'm probably going to bottle my Dark Matter ale on thursday night...

I would really like to get the jump on the job by sanitising the bottles early...

If I sanitsed the bottles and placed them top down in a sanitised plastic tub how far ahead do you think I can sanitise them?

I would say an hour or two once rinsed and drained (I often have an hour gap). I personally would feel a bit risky leaving it much longer, but see what the other guys say. Of course when bottling the alcohol present in the beer should lend a bit of a hand as well.

I think that because you are sanitising (not sterilising) you aren't killing anything you are just inhibiting it's growth for a period, this allows your yeast to get a head start and consume all the food. So what you want to avoid is letting the nasties "wake up".

Rubber.Piggy wrote:

MHD wrote:I'm probably going to bottle my Dark Matter ale on thursday night...

I would really like to get the jump on the job by sanitising the bottles early...

If I sanitsed the bottles and placed them top down in a sanitised plastic tub how far ahead do you think I can sanitise them?

I would say an hour or two once rinsed and drained (I often have an hour gap). I personally would feel a bit risky leaving it much longer, but see what the other guys say. Of course when bottling the alcohol present in the beer should lend a bit of a hand as well.

I think that because you are sanitising (not sterilising) you aren't killing anything you are just inhibiting it's growth for a period, this allows your yeast to get a head start and consume all the food. So what you want to avoid is letting the nasties "wake up".

Would sterilsing them make more of a difference in this case RP?....maybe boiled water in the bottle for 5-10 mins then drain & cover in a sterilised container?

JaCk_SpArRoW wrote:Would sterilsing them make more of a difference in this case RP?....maybe boiled water in the bottle for 5-10 mins then drain & cover in a sterilised container?

Dogger made a good point recently, that basically what we are doing with most of our "sterilising" is actually best known as sanitising. Short of placing our equipment, bottles etc in a medical autoclave, we cannot sterilise what we are using.

We are getting rid of most of the bugs, and that is sanitising, not sterilising.

As Dogger said, maybe a moot point, but thats the difference.

scblack wrote:

JaCk_SpArRoW wrote:Would sterilsing them make more of a difference in this case RP?....maybe boiled water in the bottle for 5-10 mins then drain & cover in a sterilised container?

Dogger made a good point recently, that basically what we are doing with most of our "sterilising" is actually best known as sanitising. Short of placing our equipment, bottles etc in a medical autoclave, we cannot sterilise what we are using.

We are getting rid of most of the bugs, and that is sanitising, not sterilising.

As Dogger said, maybe a moot point, but thats the difference.

Yeah I was aware of that particular point SC, I just wasnt sure if there was any benefit of using boiled water as the last rinse before sticking them in a container for storage...which is what I did but havent used them yet so I am guessing I will need to re-sanitise them?

yeah, i'd say no more than 1/2 an hour to an hour.

Beware the big scary bug

Sometimes I leave my bottles 2 or 3 days on the draining tree before I bottle. As scblack said, we are not getting rid of all the bugs, just minimising the number. To survive, the average beer-killing bacteria/fungus needs moisture and nutrient. If you sanitise, and allow your bottles to drain, you have already killed a good percentage of any potential bugs. If you now leave these bottles dry, the chance of a bug falling upwards, into your bottles, is rediculously low. The chance that they will take hold on either a dry surface, or in the remanant one-shot solution, is even lower.

On top of this, you will be filling the bottles with an acidic, alcohol-containing liquid, which has already been firmly claimed by the yeasties.
We're talking superbug to beat this system.

I'm not saying that you should leave your bottles out forever, but a few days will not kill the beer.

I do suggest not leaving your bottles in a windy area though, as they can fill up with dust- that would not be tasty.

Hmm... Obviously I need more opinions!

Do you think leaving them in a solution of sodium percarbonate (Napi-San) would help prevent any nasties forming?....Im just not sure how long that stuff stays active to kill of said nasties.

MHD wrote:I'm probably going to bottle my Dark Matter ale on thursday night...

I would really like to get the jump on the job by sanitising the bottles early...

If I sanitsed the bottles and placed them top down in a sanitised plastic tub how far ahead do you think I can sanitise them?

A friend suggested using glad wrap to seal bottles that have been sanitised ahead of filling.

He's had no problems using this method.

JaCk_SpArRoW wrote:

scblack wrote:

JaCk_SpArRoW wrote:Would sterilsing them make more of a difference in this case RP?....maybe boiled water in the bottle for 5-10 mins then drain & cover in a sterilised container?

Dogger made a good point recently, that basically what we are doing with most of our "sterilising" is actually best known as sanitising. Short of placing our equipment, bottles etc in a medical autoclave, we cannot sterilise what we are using.

We are getting rid of most of the bugs, and that is sanitising, not sterilising.

As Dogger said, maybe a moot point, but thats the difference.

Yeah I was aware of that particular point SC, I just wasnt sure if there was any benefit of using boiled water as the last rinse before sticking them in a container for storage...which is what I did but havent used them yet so I am guessing I will need to re-sanitise them?

I do the same after I finish drinking from my bottles with hot water(not boiling), but I still sanitise before bottling anyway. I take as few chances as possible.

I know an old fella, who would rinse his bottles with boiling water after drinking, then store and bottle without sanitising, and he never had a problem in years of brewing.

So I guess it's possible to do, but I sanitise anyway.

JaCk_SpArRoW wrote:Do you think leaving them in a solution of sodium percarbonate (Napi-San) would help prevent any nasties forming?....Im just not sure how long that stuff stays active to kill of said nasties.

I don't think it is ever a good idea to leave bottles, fermenters or any other brewing equipment wet.

As Chris said, nasties need a warm humid place to grow. If bottles are rinsed and drained after being emptied, then stoerd dry. There is no reason why any bugs would be in the bottle. It should be a case of a quick rinse with hot water prior to bottling to remve any dust that may have gotten in.

In my case, this is what I do. I rinse bottles/kegs immediately after they have been emptied with cold water. They are drained, then stored, upright, until the next brew is ready to fill them. Then they are thoroughly rinsed with scalding hot water and filled. No sanitisers, no chemicals, just water.

If this sounds scary, rest assured that in 12 odd years of brewing, I have never had a bad, or infected beer.

Hashie wrote:

JaCk_SpArRoW wrote:Do you think leaving them in a solution of sodium percarbonate (Napi-San) would help prevent any nasties forming?....Im just not sure how long that stuff stays active to kill of said nasties.

I don't think it is ever a good idea to leave bottles, fermenters or any other brewing equipment wet.

As Chris said, nasties need a warm humid place to grow. If bottles are rinsed and drained after being emptied, then stoerd dry. There is no reason why any bugs would be in the bottle. It should be a case of a quick rinse with hot water prior to bottling to remve any dust that may have gotten in.

In my case, this is what I do. I rinse bottles/kegs immediately after they have been emptied with cold water. They are drained, then stored, upright, until the next brew is ready to fill them. Then they are thoroughly rinsed with scalding hot water and filled. No sanitisers, no chemicals, just water.

If this sounds scary, rest assured that in 12 odd years of brewing, I have never had a bad, or infected beer.

Sounds like you got it nailed then Hashie, I'll take your word for it!...cheers mate!

I think people get a bit over the top with sanitizing bottles, do it by all means, but I have left them a week or more after washing and sanitizing, just covers with a cloth to prevent anything getting in, or even on the drain tree, never had a problem. I know blokes, and have read posts were they don't even sanitize just rinse straight after use, again before filling and into it, I havn't been quite that brave.

I guess it all comes down to what people are comfortable with
I rinse straight after emptying a bottle with hot water out of tap, make sure nothing is left in the bottle, then put away covered with a tea towel
when ready to bottle again, rinse with hot water then fill with beer

havent had a problem yet and I am up to brew 10 since I restarted HBing
last year

JaCk_SpArRoW wrote:Would sterilsing them make more of a difference in this case RP?....maybe boiled water in the bottle for 5-10 mins then drain & cover in a sterilised container?

A1. Yes sterilising would be better, however this is not easy when you don't have an autoclave or gamma gun handy. Note meany plastics can't be sterilisted b/c instability to the method.

A2. "Boiled" water (boiled and cooled) water will not sterilise or sanitise anything. It just has a low probability of contaminating anything. Boiling water (water at 100 deg) will kill many things, but not all (and can't be used on many plastics). Autoclaving requires 121 deg for 15 mins, boiling water falls short on the temperature. So strickly speaking boiling water is a sanitiser as well.

EDIT: grammar :p

Personally I rinse bottles with hot water and leave to drain then put the cap back on, to keep out dust etc until I need to use again, then just a quick rinse with hot water before refilling. I only "sanitise" if the bottles are really mingin', like the 60 or so old CUB bottles I picked up that had been under this old blokes house for years. They were full of all sorts of shite and really needed a good soak scrub and sanitise.


Cheers

Porridge

Can I piggy back a relevant question here? How long does sanitiser stay potent? The one I am using at the moment is called 'Brewshield' and says it contains Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) and Silver Ions. It is required to be diluted 15ml to 1L. Somtimes this sits around awhile (in its spray bottle) waiting for the next sanitation experience. Do the evil microbes of tap water eventually overcome the brave peroxides and valiant ions?. I ask this because the solution already has water but it is distilled.

I'm with Porridgewog on this one. I've never had a problem by not sanitising bottles. I rinse them after use in hot water and store them upside down, Any that look bad I clean and sterilise. And if one beer did go off, so what? Throw it away - I've still saved a heap of time. I reckon the alcohol would stop most bugs from revving up.