HomebrewandBeer.com forum

Hello all,

I made the following inquiry with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission via its website today.

The letter was prompted by the inclusion on a restaurant wine and beer list of Stella Artois and Heineken under the heading "Imported Beers". My tip is that they would have been brewed in Australia by Foster's and Lion Nathan, respectively.

I hope you are as incensed as I am about this fraud being perpetrated on unwitting Australian consumers.

I'll let you know about the response.

In the meantime, let me know what you think about this issue, and please provide any examples of this fraud. Goodness knows there are enough examples out there.

Cheers,

Oliver


"Imported" beer actually brewed locally

As you may be aware, many beers that have traditionally been brewed overseas and imported into Australia are now brewed in Australia. Examples include Stella Artois, Heineken and Beck's. While the brewers of these beers do not claim these beers to be "imported", retailers, including restaurants and bottleshops, often advertise them as so in menus and in catalogues. This would appear analogous to saying an Australian-made Ford Falcon is an imported car because Ford is an internationally recognised brand.

Making the claim that these beers are "imported", whether in advertisements or on menus, would, at first glance, seem to contravene several sections of the Trade Practices Act, including that which deals with country of origin claims.

Placing internationally recognised but locally brewed beers under a heading such as "Overseas brands" would, perhaps, avoid contraventions of the Act.

Could you please advise me whether my reasoning is, in fact, correct: that claiming that a brand of beer (or any other product for that matter) that is made in Australia can be sold as "imported" simply because it is an internationally recognised brand.

Many thanks in advance for your time.

Oliver

Totally agree, be very interested in seeing what ACCC have to say.

Add Asahi to the list as well.

It's a joke and needs fixing.

The problem is that the brewers put the truth on the back of the label, so they cover themselves but it is deceptive.

Interesting. Yes, I believe that you are right, legally speaking. The problem will be that you'll probably have to go after each individual retailer separately to get it changed.

It's clearly a travesty, as the brewer kept saying on the Monteith's Brewery tour in NZ, 97% of your beer is water, so it's the most important ingredient. So true and so often overlooked.

I agree with all points raised. I think the average bloke is being duped by this scheme of breing imports in Australia. The labeling is misleading and the words that tell you the beer is not really an import are usually hidden on the back of the bottle in a very clevel and easily overlooked spot.

As far as water being the most important ingredient that is very true for nearly all of the great beers we would pay the extereme import price for. Water chemistry can do great things to achieve this goal, but do the brewers care? I doubt it! I also have to wonder if the Australian breweries "cloning" these beers follow the same recipe or if they cut corners simply because they are allowed to (ie. isohop extract, sugar, ceral extract, etc.).

Also I would like to say that I will help you in this fight in any way I can. I am sure others here would as well so keep us posted and let us know if we can do anything at all to win this battle of wool pulling.

I wonder whether it could be taken a step further. Some parts of the law seem to center around "What a reasonable person would be likely to conclude"

In the context of the restaurant even grouping the fakes with the genuine article would lead a reasonable person to conclude that they are in fact imported. Even if the list had the heading of overseas brands or no heading at all. Only the heading "Brewed in Australia under licence" would remove all doubt.

In the context of the bottle shop would a reasonable person having identified a refreshing six pack of beverage as bearing the name of an imported beer check the fine print to see whether the brewing giants are trying to pull a quickie on them. Only if they are of the well informed minority but the majority would probably not.

What about when you see the beer in the fridge behind the bar. The first opportunity for you to see the fine print is once you've got it in your hand.

Perhaps the perpetrators of this fraud should be forced to stamp "Brewed in Australia under licence" in reasonable large print over the front of the label. Watch the price drop then.

What about describing products such as Carlton Cold as "beer"? Haven't they heard of misleading and deceptive conduct? Wouldn't "brewed soft drink" be a more appropriate description of the goods?

On a serious note, the real mischief is in the pricing of these "imported" beers. Have you checked out the price of a slab of Stella lately? Aren't consumers being deceived into paying inflated prices in the belief that they are getting something that has been brewed in Europe?

Is this the start of Importedbeergate?

Geoff wrote:What about describing products such as Carlton Cold as "beer"? Haven't they heard of misleading and deceptive conduct? Wouldn't "brewed soft drink" be a more appropriate description of the goods?

You may also have action via the Trade Practices Act as goods are supposed to be sold "fit for purpose".

I am not of the opinion that Carlton Dry (or Cold) is a beer that is fit for drinking.

great idea, peoples.

From now on I will whinge about it at restaraunts

although usually my drink-selecting process will not include choosing these beers:

1) look at beer list
2) if there's a really good beer there (eg Coopers), buy it
3) if there isn't, and all its got is the usual Carlton, VB, crownies, get some wine. (Australian wine is, IMO on average much better than Australian beer)

You are dead right on that one blandy.

Well done, Oliver.
In spite of the Trade Practices legislation having been enacted in its substantial form of today for over 30 years, it seems many in business are still slow learners, and willing to do their bit to make an extra buck or two by any means possible.
Anything the little man (or should I say BIG hearted man in your case) can do to even things out is a good thing.
Here's hoping you get a positive response.

Add Kirin to the list, had one today, Brewed in NSW........

Googled to see if NSW was in Japan.........it's not.

WSC wrote:Add Kirin to the list, had one today, Brewed in NSW........

Googled to see if NSW was in Japan.........it's not.

That's because Japan is in NSW. Morris Iemma bought it to help with Public Transport, Health, Water etc. etc. etc.

All the big places technically cover themselves. Breweries by having that small print Brewed Under License and bottle shops by referring to them as International, and yes that does cover them.

Had a stubby of Asahi yesterday and with this thread in mind read the fine print on the label. Imported Japanese beer?. Yes and no, brewed under licence in Thailand.

I doubt the average restauranter is aware that many 'imported' brands are brewed in Australia, as many used to be genuine imports, and unless you read the label closely you wouldn't know that this has changed.

It is quite a difficult situation because as already mentioned, it would have to be addressed with each bottleshop/retailer, yet the real crims are the breweries for being misleading. But unfortunately in most cases they have misled the public to the letter of the law - I suspect the legislation isn't specific enough to properly address issues like this unique sitaution with beer.

Its not just the resturaunts that don't know, if you check out many of the adverts for the big liquor chains and supermarkets seling these beer they have them advertised as imnports.

Yes everyone is getting duped here.

One of the major chains here ran an ad a few weeks back selling 6-pack "imports" 2 for $28 anyone wanna guess the selection? Not a real import in the lot!

Bought a 4 pack of Guinness draught today from dan murphys. Its brewed here under license yet i found it in the Ireland section.

This is what happens when Coles and Woolworths take over all your bottle-o's.
You end up with less selection, higher prices and absolute shit service from 12 year old kids without a clue.

Anyone remember the film clip to the Cruel Sea's song No choice?
Where they are walking through a grocery store and all the products are the same thing with the label "No Choice"...