That awesome lager flavour only good lagers have

[wombat]

Hi all,

You all know that great grainy/sulphury/soury flavour that quality lagers have (like grolsch for example)? You know, that flavour that makes a good lager a lager and that you can never seem to get out of home brew?

How the heck do you get it?

I've been thinking that it's the grains, then i was thinking it was a special kind of local yeast (like belgium beers) that gives off that lager smell and taste and now i just have no clue

I've not done a lot with grains thus far and i have never used one of those $15-a-tube genuine german lager yeasts so i don't really have much of an idea what each of these imparts on the brew flavour and aroma wise. I've used crystal grain before in brewing to get some mashing practice, but it was only 250g. It made a nice amber ale, but didn't help me get much of a clue to the effects it would have on a lighter beer like a lager. My next beer is going down on Saturday and i'm using 1kg pale grain and 250g crystal grain in it so i'll have more of a clue first hand in a couple of months but i'd love to get some more info on this one

Has anyone here managed to approximate the Grolsch aroma/flavour?
Better yet, anyone got a recipe?

I've seen those brew store can-based clone recipes but i'm seriously skeptical that 1kg of malt extract, some dextrose, maltodextrin and a little hopping will make it taste the same.
Anyone have an all grain recipe?

thanks all, cheers
-wombat

[gregb]

Try either Coopers Brewmaster series Pilsner or Cascade Golden harvest Lager. I brewed both with yeast as supplied. The Cascade with 600g Dextrose and 400g Maltodextrin. The Coopers 250g each of Light Dry Malt, Dextrose and Maltodextrin.

[thehipone]

When trying to clone any beer style the yeast should be your #1 priority. You can get away with using slightly different malt and hops, but the yeast is what really makes the flavor. Consider maybe a liquid yeast if you're really serious. Saflager will probably work too, but a White Labs vial can allow you to get just the right yeast. And it can be used for multiple batches if you grow it up and store it right.

For a lager, really pay attention to your fermentation temperature and times in primary and secondary. Colder and longer is usually better, and as you say, ditch the kit and go all-grain (if you've got tons of time) or extract plus some specialty grain. I dont know of any specific Grolsch recipes, but there are certainly plenty of recipes around on the net. Experiment a bit and let us know.
Best of luck.

[grabman]

Wombat,

I found this on the Northern Brewer website, hope it's of use to you:
This is all grain
4 oz 2.5 L german light crystal malt
2 oz german munich malt
10.25 german 2 row pilsner malt
1 oz northern brewer bittering 30 min
.25 german Hallertau hersbrucker flavor
1 teaspoon irish mossboil for 15 min then add
.50 Czech Saazfor 10 min then cool

yeast 1choice Danish lager #2042
second choice is Danish lager 2 #2247

Mash all grains for 90 min at 150 f
bitter 90 min. flavor and irish moss for 15 min. second flavor for last 10 min

[Dogger Dan]

Ok folks,

My two cents is it fromt the yeast and the water. Use a specialty yeast and you will get it. Take a view at white labs, they report their yeasts that produce the sulpher flavour.

I will remind you that sulpher at concentrations over 200 ppm will give you the runs (fact). Just to forewarn you.

Dogger

[Oliver]

Chaps,

I can only concur with what's been said about yeast and brewing temperature. No point splashing out on a fandangled lager yeast if you go and whack it in a brew that you're going to ferment at 25C.

If you do buy a lager yeast, try and keep the brew nice and cool. It'll take longer to ferment, but the results will be well worth it.

Cheers,

Oliver

[Gough]

Yep, I also agree with most of what's been said. I brew quite a few lagers and would argue that if you can't keep your fermentation temps steady at or below 12ish degrees, then you'll not really replicate true lager flavours. You may brew a beer you are happy with, but it won't have the real lager profile.

For what it is worth, here are some suggestions.
- If you are worried about trying liquid yeast and can keep your temps at or below around 12 degrees then the safale w34/70 is a good dried yeast to try.
- Let your lagers ferment right out - don't be in a hurry to bottle. They are S-L-O-W...
- Czech Saaz hops and German Hallertau Mittelfrau are excellent choices as finishing hops - don't be afraid to dry hop into secondary, especially if you are lagering for a few weeks. The hops will drop out and you'll get that 'aroma' you are after.
- Lagering @ 3degrees or below in a fridge is great if you can manage it. If you are doing it though, try and use a vessel with as little head space as possible to avoid prolonged contact with oxygen. Willow 'cubes' from Camping shops are a good option and save a bit of space.
- Correct yeast, correct temps, correct ingredients - esp grains and hops - and you won't go wrong.

Hope that helps,

Shawn.

[Dogger Dan]

Of interest I just read an article that says you may have to reboot your yeast if you lager cold for a long time prior to bottling (these guys were talking months). I never had one last that long myself but I am wondering if one is conditioning it in the secondary that long, even warm, if it may not lead to issues when carbonating. ie some of the flat beer posts. Anyone else heard of this? (the rebooting not the flat beer)

Dogger

[grabman]

Hey Dogger,

sorry no help here, the only thing I've rebooted lately is my 'puter.

[Gough]

It is an issue if you have cold conditioned for a long time apparently. Some brewers will 'lager' their beers at just on 0 degrees C for months. You need to fire your yeast back up after that length of time. The longest I personally have lagered a beer was 4 weeks at 2 degrees after 14 days fermentation at 10 degrees, a diacetyl rest for 2 days at 18, and a week in secondary with dry hops added at 10 again. My yeast was OK after all that - carbonated in a fortnight no worries. Long time to wait for a beer, but it was bloody nice... I'm on a mission to copy the Czech Pilsner styles like Pilsner Urquell and Budvar Budweiser. I've come close and made some nice beers, but still yet to hit the holy grail...

Shawn.