Oat Meal Stout Kit

[bilgerat]

I tried a bottle of Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout last night and it was about one of the best stouts I have sampled and Ive had a few, does anyone know if it is available in a kit, perhaps a Coopers Stout kit could be fiddled with to produce something close to the Samuel Smith, I drink a lot more stout this time of year than beer.
My first brew a few weeks ago was a Coopers Irish Stout which was pretty good, straight out of the tin using the yeast that was supplied with the kit but IMHO was not as good as the Oat meal stout.

Thanks

[Oliver]

Hi Bilgerat,

A couple of extract recipes I found via Google:

Recipe 1
Toast 0.5lb oats in the oven on a cookie sheet for 75min (turning every 15min) at 325ËšF (160C).

Steep them with:
0.5lb Crystal 55
0.5lb Chocolate Malt
0.25lb Roasted Barley

5.75lb M&F light DME

2oz EKG 4.25% @60min

Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale yeast

(Edit: I also found a post that suggests White Labs WLP037 is the Samuel Smith yeast.)

Recipe 2
This is a slight variation on the previous recipe:
5 lbs 12.0 oz Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 71.88 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 12.50 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
4.0 oz Roasted Barley (Briess) (300.0 SRM) Grain 3.13 %
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 20.4 IBU
1 Pkgs Yorkshire Square Ale (White Labs #WLP037) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale

Toast the oats at 325F for 75 minutes... And No, that is not too much time! My process was to steep in 2 gallons of water and sparge in 1. Combine initial steep wort and sparge wort, bring to boil, and add DME. Return to boil and add hops, boil 60 min.


Looking at these recipes, why don't you grab a can of Coopers Stout, and as a starting point do what's above with the oats. Boil the liquid after steeping and add the can along with 500g light malt extract and 500g dex. My recollection of this stout is that the body isn't too heavy, hence the dex. You could add some EKG at 0 mins or dry hop you like.

Thoughts anyone?

Cheers,

Oliver

[Oliver]

Hi again,

I saw another one of your posts that mentioned you were looking for an AG recipe?

Google will be your friend here. This is one I found:

All Grain Recipe - Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout ::: 1.055/1.014 (5.5 Gal)

Grain Bill (70% Efficiency assumed)
8 lbs. - 2 Row Pale Malt (UK if you have it, but whatever)
1 lb. - Flaked Oats
1/2 lb. - Crystal Malt (60L)
1/2 lb. - Chocolate Malt
1/4 lb. - Roasted Barley

Hop Schedule (31 IBU)
1.75 oz. - East Kent Goldings - 90 min.

Yeast
White Labs Irish Ale Yeast (WLP004) - 1800 ml starter

Mash/Sparge/Boil
Mash at 151° for 60 min.
Sparge as usual
Boil for 90 minutes (remember to compensate your water)
Cool and ferment at 65° to 68°

[bilgerat]

Hello again Oliver
I havent done an all grain brew before so might leave it for a while till Im getting consistent good brews using extracts etc.
My local HBS is getting the ingredients in for me for a Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout recipe very close to the two you mentioned in your previous post, I dont have the recipe on me just now.
I have learnt quite a bit from this site in the short time I have been brewing, one reason Im not rushing into AG is because I would be flying blind, I dont have ant experience here at all.
Is there a reasonable book that spells out a step by step process from start to finish written in plain language that beginners can follow, sparging, mashing, cracking etc are all foreign to me.
Im off to have a Youngs Double Chocolate Stout and Samuel Smiths Oatmeal Stout right now, but at $8.50 each for a small bottle I cant wait to make my own
Thanks

[emnpaul]

The WLP 037 (Yorkshire square) ale yeast is a limited release (platinum) strain. Probably only available 3 months of the year. Which 3 I do not know. You might have to keep your eye out and grab it when you can.

Cheers
Paul

[Oliver]

Hi bilgerat,

Check out http://howtobrew.com, which is the first edition of John Palmer's well-regarded book. Later editions (now in its third) are available in print also.

Also, have a read of the Grain brewing section of the forum for a few tips.

And before making the jump headlong into all-grain, a good idea is probably to do some partial/mini mashes to get your head around the processes and terminology, and to get an idea of how much mashing can improve your beers. Have a look at Trough Lolly's partial mash instructions.

Cheers,

Oliver

[bilgerat]

I have just bought the ingredients for my first partial mash brew, its suppose to be clone of Samuel Smiths Oatmeal Stout

I have the following ingredients

East Kent Goldings Hops 50 grams
Blue Lake Milling Flaked/Rolled Oats 500grams
Roasted Barley 115 grams
Chocolate Malt 225 grams
Crystal Malt 225 grams
Morgans Extra Pale Ale Malt Extract 2 x 1.5 kg
1 pack Safale S 04 yeast

I am new to partial brewing so would appreciate if someone could look at the instructions that came with the goodies and make any comments or suggestions, the one thing Im not sure about is the directions I have dont mention at what stage I bung the oats in, does it go in with the grains as part of the mashing process, also do I do anything with the oats before chucking them in, I think I have read somewhere where people have slightly roasted them in an oven?

Bring 4 litres water to boil and allow to cool to 65 - 70C

Put grains ie barley,choc malt and crystal malt into muslin bag and place in the 4 litres of hot water, carefully raise and lower the bag over the next hour, Im assuming I have to maintain the temp at around 65C during this mashing process.

After an hour remove the grain bag and rinse the bag with hot water (sparge ?) add this sparge liquid to the mash pot, how much liquid do I use for this sparge process??

The combined liquid, mash and sparge are now refered to as the wort, I bring this to the boil and add the hops, in a muslin bag and boil for 90 minutes, then remove the pot from heat and remove the hop bag from the wort.

Pour the two tins of malt extract into the pot and stir to disslove the liquid extract into the wort, pour this into the fermenter and add cold water to bring level up to 23 litres , pitch yeast when temperature is around 18 - 22C

Im sorry if some of my questions are basic, this is my first attempt and I want to get it right.

Thanks

[chadjaja]

I've got the ag version on tap and its beaut. I used 1469 though. Needs a bit of conditioning time.

[Oliver]

Hi BR,

Strictly speaking, what you're doing is steeping, not mashing. All you're doing is extracting flavour from most of the grains, not converting starches in malted grain to sugars through mashing.

With the oats, they should really be cooked then mashed with some base malt such as malted barley.

However, that's not to say that the oats won't contribute to the flavour if you add them with the other grains and steep them.

... one thing Im not sure about is the directions I have dont mention at what stage I bung the oats in, does it go in with the grains as part of the mashing process.

Bung them in with the rest of the grain.

... do I do anything with the oats before chucking them in, I think I have read somewhere where people have slightly roasted them in an oven?

You could (as per the posts above) but I would be tempted not to first time around. If you need more roasty flavour you can always make this beer again after roasting the oats.

Bring 4 litres water to boil and allow to cool to 65 - 70C

I'd aim for 73 or so. Otherwise the temperature will be low once you put the grain in and you'll have to heat it up.

... raise and lower the bag over the next hour, Im assuming I have to maintain the temp at around 65C during this mashing process.

About 65C is fine. But since this is not a real mash, half an hour will be fine.

After an hour remove the grain bag and rinse the bag with hot water (sparge ?) add this sparge liquid to the mash pot, how much liquid do I use for this sparge process??

Use about the same as you used initially, so about four litres. Less would work OK though. And about the same temperature as the steeping water. Rinse gently. The easiest thing would be to put the whole bag in the water and raise and lower it a few times.

The combined liquid, mash and sparge are now refered to as the wort, I bring this to the boil and add the hops, in a muslin bag and boil for 90 minutes, then remove the pot from heat and remove the hop bag from the wort.

I'd only do a 30-minute boil. I don't see any benefit to a longer boil in your case. If you had done a true partial mash or a full mash then you could boil for longer.

Pour the two tins of malt extract into the pot and stir to disslove the liquid extract into the wort, pour this into the fermenter and add cold water to bring level up to 23 litres , pitch yeast when temperature is around 18 - 22C.

You'll have a lot of hot liquid. Cool the wort first by putting the saucepan in a sink of cold or ice-cold water for a while. Otherwise it will still be too hot once topped up. Keep the lid on while cooling and there's no risk of infection. Aim to ferment about 18C if you can.

Im sorry if some of my questions are basic, this is my first attempt and I want to get it right.

No problems. We've all been there

Cheers,

Oliver

[bilgerat]

Thanks for your reply Oliver, I will give it a crack over the weekend.
One thing I read somewhere was not to just fill the fermenter to 23 litres it is more important to fill the fermenter until you get the OG at the right level, depending on the wort this could be reached at say 19 litres, I guess by overfilling we are diluting the brew??
Next brew may be as you suggested previously with a Coopers Stout with some added Oats, I have a long way to go but enjoying the ride.
As suggested I have ordered John Palmers How to Brew book.
Thanks
Gary

[Oliver]

One thing I read somewhere was not to just fill the fermenter to 23 litres it is more important to fill the fermenter until you get the OG at the right level, depending on the wort this could be reached at say 19 litres, I guess by overfilling we are diluting the brew??

You could certainly fill until you reached the OG you were after.

Some kit and extract brewers simply only fill their fermenters to 19 or 20 litres as a matter of course because of the more concentrated flavour it produces (not to mention higher alcohol).

Cheers,

Oliver

[bilgerat]

Hi Oliver

Can you just explain what you mean by

"With the oats, they should really be cooked then mashed with some base malt such as malted barley".

Are you saying the oats should be cooked seperately then soaked in a malt barley ??

Sorry about dumb questions.

Gary

[squirt in the turns]

Can you just explain what you mean by

"With the oats, they should really be cooked then mashed with some base malt such as malted barley".

Are you saying the oats should be cooked seperately then soaked in a malt barley ??

Some grains (oats, rice, etc) have starches that can be converted to sugars in a mash, but lack the necessary enzymes to convert by themselves. Therefore they need to be mashed with malted barley grains, which have enough enzymes to convert both their own starches and the starches of the less capable grains. The amount of enzymes in a given grain is referred to as its "diastatic power".

Your grain bill doesn't include any "base" barley malt, so all of your fermentable sugar is coming from your tins of malt extract. The roasted (not the same as malted) barley, choc and crystal malts, and oats are only there for flavour, colour and body. You are simply steeping them to extract these properties.

As to whether the oats require cooking or mashing, I'm not sure. I know that if you're going to mash rice, you boil it first. That information is not much help to you.

A quick look at the oat products on offer from Craftbrewer only confuses matters. Most of the grains on there state whether mashing is required, or whether they can be steeped. The malted oats are listed as requiring a mash. The "Oats - Golden Naked (Simpsons)" say "mash required?", so that's a bit of a mystery. Their flaked oats don't mention mashing or steeping.

So, to summarise the above: sorry, I don't know. I'd probably go with toasting them in the oven.

[Oliver]

Yep, what Squirt said

You could do a mini-mash with some malted barley if you like. Sounds daunting, but is really more fiddly than difficult and you need some extra equipment (some or all of which you may already have). See Trough Lolly's partial mash instructions.

Sorry I didn't reply. I was away all weekend and just back online now.

Cheers,

Oliver

[bilgerat]

Thanks for all the replies

I bunged the oats in with the rest of the grain, uncooked, so will see how it turns out, I cooked it all up on Saturday and it is bubbling away sweetly now with lovely aromas wafting out of the airlock,OG was 1.053 pretty close to suggested OG of 1.055, when I took a sample from the drain cock at the bottom of the fermenter it was like treacle, I guess this will settle out over the next two weeks in the fermenter, I may have to siphon into the keg when the time comes if there is too much sediment on the bottom, all ingredients including malt extract were well disloved so not sure why its so thick on the bottom.

Im glad the wife is away for a few days, I had a few minor spills in the kitchen and the smell was delicious.

I keep notes on every brew I make so I can fiddle about and change things with another batch, if necessary.

Next brew is a James Squires Amber Ale clone then I will have to start getting some summer brews going like Pilsner etc

Gary

[bilgerat]

I just finished drinking this one it just got better with age, perhaps next time I make I will leave it in the keg a month or two before gassing it??
Gary

[chadjaja]

Doesn't matter if the keg is carbed or not with conditioning. This beer does need a month or two I've found and fridge temps is still fine I've found. Summer is here soon so ill be switching my dark beer tap to something like a black ipa though instead of stout or Porter.

[bilgerat]

Hi chadjaja
I will start making stouts around Feb and give them some conditioning time before drinking them during winter, the oatmeal stout I made was my first real go at mashing etc and it was a lovely drop that improved with age.
I too am looking at something a bit lighter for summer drinking, I have a kolsch and a bavarian wheat beer in kegs but with two empty fermenters and two spare kegs I need to get something going, possibly a golden ale or a pilsner, any suggestions on parrtial recipes appreciated, Im not set up for AG yet.
Im not set up yet for lagers as I dont have sufficient temp control to keep the brew cool, something that will tolerate ambient Perth temps will be the go.
Thanks
Gary

[emnpaul]

Whitelabs Belgian Witt yeast recommended ferment temp range is 19-23*C. That's the highest recommended temp I'm aware of. I haven't tried it but you may even get away with going a bit higher.

As for ambient Perth temps last Summer/Autumn...Good luck!

[chadjaja]

Summer in Perth is surely saison time! Its a pretty basic recipe so any light coloured extract or even larger can kit that's bittered to the 30 ibu 's range would do as a base. This yeast is best started at 25 degrees and pushed up to 30 degrees by the second week or so. A great refreshing summer ale )