Weihenstephaner Hefe Weissbier clone - ideas?

[Adzmax]

I recently purchased some Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan Weizen Yeast) and I'm looking to make a clone of Weihenstephaner Hefe Weissbier (Yummy rich banana-clove, toffee-butter nose)

I'm thinking so far -

ESB Bavarian Wheat Pack 3kg
500g LDME
1KG Wheat malt grain (Steep at 65c for 1 hour then added to boil)
Tettenager Hops (1/2 as start of boil, 1/2 for last 5 mins)
Wyeast 3068

(This is my first liquid yeast brew, I'm splitting yeast at the moment, it's happily bubbling away. I'll fridge then make a starter once the recipe is finalised)

I'm VERY new this though so suggestions, improvments, and recipes would be welcomed!

[Aussie Claret]

1KG Wheat malt grain (boiled at around 75c for 20 mins then added to the stove boil)
Sorry this doesn't make sense, boiled at around 75c? Are you boiling (100c) or steeping at 75c, either way if you go above 70c with any grain you will deactivate the enzymes necessary for conversion so you should try to avoid doing this.
I would steep the grains in water at around 65 -68c for an hour then strain the liquid off then boil the wort.

Cheers
AC

[Adzmax]

Yep sorry my bad, steeping not boiling

So around 65c, not 75c. No worries.

Does this mean during the stovetop cook that I should also avoid boiling the fermentables and water from the grain or simply not mix them untill they get to the fermenter?

[Aussie Claret]

You can add them all to the boil, but what I would do is add the wort from the grain plus the LDME and boil that, if you want add the kit at the end, whcih will avoid boiling off any (if it has any) hop aroma.

Just make sure you remove from the heat when adding the kit as it will sink to the bottom of the pan and may stick / scorch. Keep stirring until it has desolved, try to avoid any splashing.
Have you thought about adding a little bit of hops? Try tettenager, saaz, hersbrucker, near the end of the boil. 20g should do the trick as Wheat beers are not too bitter or have too much aroma/flavour, but a little is nice.

AC

[Adzmax]

I have thought about hops

I have some tettenager at home that I think I'll use.

Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated!

[tazman67]

Ive got the same yeast,Would any Bavarian Wheat kit be ok? I was thinking of using tettenager as well.I was thinking of adding some Torrified wheat as well.

[Adzmax]

I'm wondering the same things, I've got a few at home at the moment but thought I'd just give this one a go.

I used puffed wheat for my last brew, a Hoegaarden clone. Seems nice so far but it's still green so time with tell

[Adzmax]

Pitched the yeast starter last night and it's bubbling like made tonight, the most I've seen. Looks like liquid yeast really is the goods!

One note, I didn't realise that the ESB kits include hops in the mix. I had added tettenager to the boil then strained it into the fermenter. I then added the ESB kit and found it also included hops!

All I can smell out the air lock is hops! Hope it wasn't too much

[gregb]

... All I can smell out the air lock is hops! Hope it wasn't too much

Too much Hops? No such beast.

Cheers,
Greg

[Adzmax]

Haha, I had a smell of the airlock this morning and it's mellowed out quite a bit. I'm looking forward to a taste test!

[rwh]

On a related note, the hop smell out the airlock is the reason you dryhop in secondary. The CO2 produced in primary scrubs the most volatile (aroma) hop oils from the wort.

[Adzmax]

No worries, thanks for that. I'd assume cold infusion is also along similar lines?

[rwh]

No idea, I've never heard of cold infusion.

[Adzmax]

Hop teabag in a cup of boiling water, leave it to cool then add to the fermenter at a late stage. Just a fancy name I guess

[111222333]

No worries, thanks for that. I'd assume cold infusion is also along similar lines?

As opposed to cold FUSSION, which i read first time, thinking: WTF, thats one warm beer.

[Adzmax]

Well this has been bottled for about a week now. I just cracked a bottle then (naughty I know) as I really wanted to see the results of using the Wyeast and I'm pretty happy, it's got a really nice nose/taste for such a green beer....but question

I snipped this from the Wyeast web page -

3068 Weihenstephan Weizen Yeast.
Probable origin: Weihenstephan, Germany
Beer Styles: German Hefeweissen, Crystal weisse, Dunkel weisse, Weisenbock
Commercial examples may include: Ayinger Weissebeer, Tabernash Wheat, Sandwald, Erdinger Weisse, Schneider Weisse
Unique properties: Classic German wheat beer yeast, used by more German Brewers than any other strain in the production of Wheat beer. Properties dominated by banana ester production, phenols and clove like characteristics. Extremely attenuative yeast, which produces a tart thirst quenching finish. Extremely low floccing yeast remains in suspension readily with proteinacous wheat malt. Sometimes used in conjunction with lager yeast and kerausened to finish the beer and improve the overall dryness. High CO2 levels, typically at 2.7 - 3.2 volumes is desirable for best presentation. True top cropping yeast requires full headspace of 33%. Ester formation is significantly affected by aeration and pitching rates. Crystal weisse production typically requires DE filtration, may prove too difficult for Pad filtration only. Flocculation - low; apparent attenuation 73-77%. (64-75° F, 18-24° C)


I notice they say that the Ester formation is significantly affected by aeration and pitching rates. Does this mean if I pitch 2 times the amount of yeast in the started that the Banana smell/taste should be stronger?

[tazman67]

I have just used this yeast on a german wheat recipe and it is bubbling out of the airlock. Huge Krausen

[rwh]

I notice they say that the Ester formation is significantly affected by aeration and pitching rates. Does this mean if I pitch 2 times the amount of yeast in the started that the Banana smell/taste should be stronger?

Not necessarily. It might be less strong. It doesn't say whether it's affected UP or affected DOWN. I guess you could ask them, or just give it a try and see what happens. I'd suggest that temperature would also strongly affect the fermentation profile.

[Adzmax]

OK fair enough. Perhaps I'll give Grape and Grain a call and see what they think.

I've done a lot of reading and from what I gather the higher the fermentation temp the more ester's are produced. I'll let you know what I find out!

[Adzmax]

OK apparently it may be better to have less aeration and pitch less yeast, not what I expected! Anyhow I think I'll just experiment and see what I find. Might also take the temp up to 23c from 20 for this brew and give that a go.

Does anyone have ideas how I might be able to get a stronger malty smell/taste to this brew also?