Invert Cane Sugar and Corn Sugar

[davekate]

Hi All,

A recipe I am about to try calls for Invert Cane Sugar, anyone know where I can get this or if it is something I can make?
Also, Corn Sugar, any ideas where I might acquire this stuff?

Cheers
David

[Oliver]

David,

According to the Macquarie Dictionary, invert sugar is "a mixture of glucose and fructose formed naturally in fruits and produced artificially in syrups or fondants by treating cane sugar with acids."

Here are two interesting posts, explaining what invert cane sugar is, and how to make it at home:
http://food4.epicurious.com/HyperNews/get/archive_gtips1401-1500/1404/3.html
http://www.beertools.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=100&highlight=invert

Apparently Tate and Lyle Golden Syrup is the same as invert cane sugar, but regular golden syrup (CSR or Bundaberg, for those in Australia) is not the same.

Corn sugar is, I suspect, the same as corn syrup, which in Australia we usually purchase in dried form.

Cheers,

Oliver

[Oliver]

Further to that ...

Invert Sugar is Table Sugar (Sucrose) that has been split into its components, Glucose and Fructose. With the use of Invert Sugar in wine and beermaking, the glucose is made immediately available for the yeast to use thus allowing the fermentation process to begin more quickly than if you use Table Sugar. With Table Sugar (Sucrose) the yeast will first have to split the Sucrose into Glucose and Fructose before it can use the Glucose in the fermentation process.

(From http://www.barkingside.com/InvertSugar.htm)

Some people believe a "cidery" taste results from the yeast having to split the sucrose (by producing an enzyme) before it can ferment the sugars.

Cheers,

Oliver

[Evo]

There you go. And I always thought invert sugar had something upside down.

So using that logic, table sugar would go good in cider.

As for that link, Oliver -
"Brewing, winemaking, leaf tea and chess supplies"

They've certainly got their fingers in alot of pies. Commercial diversity. Great.

[Dogger Dan]

Nail on head Oliver

You should take a couple of food science courses. It is the splitting of the sugar that gives you your off flavours when using cane sugar.

The only thing I warn you about is DE or Dextrose Equivelent which is the apperent sweetness WRT Dextrose. Invert is relativly low.

Dogger

[wombat]

corn sugar is dextrose monohydrate, unlike corn syrup which is maltodextrin. invert sugar is cool.
-wombat

[Oliver]

Ah, I see. Where would one buy corn syrup? Is it readily available here in Australia?

[Evo]

Yeah. Powdered corn syrup. Maltodextrin. Should be in any homebrew shop.

[Oliver]

I think I'm on drugs tonight ... I meant corn sugar - dextrose monohydrate. Is that just what we all know simply as dextrose?

Oliver

[wombat]

it surely is, it just makes me feel clever to say it's whole name
-wombat

[Dogger Dan]

Let me konow when you guys get it sorted out

Dogger

[Jay]

Making invert cane sugar, i.e converting sucrose into glucose and fructose, is quite simple and creates a sweeter sugar solution that doesn't require yeast to actively convert sucrose into its constituents (the bi-product of which probably lead to the stereoptypical " Bad Homebrew" cideriness). Just add 2 cups/parts white sugar to 1 cups/parts water and add a teaspoon of citric acid. Bring the solution to almost a boil for about 30 minutes. The hot acidic environment breaks the bond between the glucose and the fructose molecules creating invert sugar. This can be used in brewing as a fermentable. I have just made a batch of HB that used 2 cups of white sugar converted into invert sugar (amongst other things) - fingers crossed.
Hope this helps as I couldn't find invert sugar anywhere.
Jay.

[gregb]

Good comment from Doc S about stove top invert sugar in Rum Rebellion Porter thread.

I left it there as it is relevant to that recipe.

Cheers,
Greg

[drtom]

In the above referenced post, the good Doctor writes that the popular wisdom that you can make invert sugar by boiling with acid, is false. Well, to be precise, that the process does not invert enough of the sugar to be useful. Given that this is such popular wisdom, I checked that source of all truth Wikipedia, and notice that it points out that the usual citric acid technique inverts enough to improve the preservative quality of the sugar, but makes it quite clear that it is only a partial inversion.

I presume that brewing invert sugar has a much higher degree of hydrolysation (i.e. a lot more of the sucrose is broken up), and that this is achieved using an enzyme such as invertase. Doc, do you know if this is the case?

Also, if my understanding is correct, then invert sugar is actually mostly a 50/50 mixture of dextrose and fructose. This begs the question of whether there is another equivalent source of fructose (the dex part is easy ).

T.

[Bizier]

I have been wondering about this for some time.
What is the best practice of achieving maximum sugar inversion at home for use in such recipes as Belgians or indeed a Rum Rebellion Porter? The Belgians have to make 'Candi Sugar' somehow... is it a monastical vibe that aids the remaining inversion?

D

[Chris]

It requires a boiler vs a boil.

[Kevnlis]

The only benefit of invert sugar or candi sugar made this way are the melanoidans it contributes. Real candi sugar is made from beets and contributes other flavour components that you will not get from cane, wheat or corn sugars. Just like molasses, dark brown sugar, and corn syrup contribute things to the brew that are left after the yeast have converted all the sugars to alcohols etc. In the end, sugar is sugar, the yeast don't really care and I do not personally subscribe to the theory that one sugar tastes any different to the next when fermented (and by sugar I mean, maltose, dextrose, fructose etc. not longer chain sugars and dextrins which are not fermented by most brewing yeasts)!

[Bizier]

It requires a boiler vs a boil.

Real candi sugar is made from beets

So... What are the thoughts on fresh beetroot juice + cane sugar in a pressure cooker with water and lemon, open boil later to evaporate down?

I have never thought of vegetable beer... I think that sound I just heard was a paradigm dislodging itself.

[Kevnlis]

I have not heard of it being done... not sure it will give you the same result though... sort of like saying corn juice and cane sugar will give you corn syrup...

[Chris]

Yep. I'm with Kev on this one.