Erdinger Pikantus Dunkler Weizenbock recipe

[warra48]

One point you may want to note re bottling - don't go too heavy handed on the priming sugars....the yeast will be tired and if you overdo the sugars in order to get a well carbonated beer, the yeast may not have enough viability to do the carbonating job, leaving you with unintended residual sweetness in the flavour profile...

Cheers,
TL

Thanks for the hint. I'll just carbonate to normal level, rather than the higher hefe levels.

[warra48]

I've started drinking this batch. It certainly is smooth and deceptive, given the alcohol level. Lovely drink. It carbed up nicely.
The next time I make this, I think I'll halve the roasted wheat down to 50 gr and maybe up the choc malt to compensate, as to my taste it had just a tad too much bitterness from that, compared to the real Pikantus. I'd also try the main mash at 65ºC to up the maltiness a tiny bit.

[Trough Lolly]

Good call, I'm doing a batch of this on the weekend and I might follow suit to see how it turns out!

Cheers,
TL

[warra48]

Just to resurrect this great recipe again, my next planned brew is a hefeweizen, and I'll pitch TL's Pikantus clone onto the yeast cake.

I thought about altering the recipe slightly, as noted above, but on reflection, I'll brew it exactly as set out by TL. I'll do a 55ºC protein rest with the wheat, and add the rest of the grist, and try mashing at 64ºC.

[Trough Lolly]

The glucan rest will reward you if you like foam on top of the beer...Hmmm, time for another batch methinks!

Cheers,
TL

[Kevnlis]

Pikantus is my favorite beer and I have come pretty close with the following recipe:

20L batch

(all Weyermann malt)
3 kilos Munich II
2 kilos dark wheat
400g Carawheat
100g Choc wheat

Mash at 68C until iodine test is negative. Boil for 90 min with a single FWH addition of any noble hop for 35 IBUs.

Ferment with 3638 at 21-23C.

[Trough Lolly]

Pikantus is my favorite beer and I have come pretty close with the following recipe:

20L batch

(all Weyermann malt)
3 kilos Munich II
2 kilos dark wheat
400g Carawheat
100g Choc wheat

Mash at 68C until iodine test is negative. Boil for 90 min with a single FWH addition of any noble hop for 35 IBUs.

Ferment with 3638 at 21-23C.

Bavaria's strong specialty

For some people, Erdinger Weissbier Pikantus 'dark bock beer' is a delicacy to be enjoyed in the colder months of the year. For lovers of strong beer, however, the season for Pikantus lasts a full twelve months.

At 7.3% alcohol, this specialty wheat beer has a considerably higher alcohol content than other varieties produced by Erdinger Weissbräu. The dark bock beer owes its sharp and full flavor to the use of selected dark wheat and barley malts and a significantly longer maturing process.

In contrast to many bock beers, Erdinger Weissbier Pikantus 'dark bock beer' does not taste too sweet. Despite its higher alcohol content, Erdinger's master brewers have succeeded in retaining the smooth Pikantus flavor.

The wheat beer for lovers of strong beer.

Product information
Alcohol 7,3 % vol
Original wort 16,9 °P
Kcal / Kjoules 63 / 260 per 100 ml

At the risk of reading like a style-nazi, I'd say you have a nice dunkelweizen recipe, but not really a full blown Pikantus there.

Cheers,
TL

[Kevnlis]

Thanks TL, it was actually for a 12 or 15L batch. I do not actually have the recipe here. I am possitive those are the amounts of ingredient I used but am unsure of the exact batch size. Adjust accordingly for you brewhouse

[Timmsy]

I must get my taste buds wraped around wheat beers as im not a fan at all and some of them German brews look mighty fine

[warra48]

Had a brew day last Monday for this one. Also had a visitor from another forum to help out.
The plan was to get about 22 litres of 1070 beer into the fermenter.

First issue was my extreme optimism in thinking I could mash 7 kg of grain in a 25 litre mash tun. Take it from me, you can't do it or, at least, I can't. Went OK first up, doing a protein rest with just the wheat. Then added the rest of the grist.

Second issue was I underestimated the temperature needed for the additional water to get the whole lot up to temperature. Added a kettle of boiling water, and still ended up about 3ºC short at 61ºC, but of course, no more space in the mash tun. Undeterred, and ever inventive, I decided to pull a very thin decoction. Tried it through the tap first, no chance. Ended up having to take it out of the top. After bringing it to the boil, and adding it back in, I thought I was looking good, and had it on exactly 64ºC as planned.

Third issue, and one hour later, open the tap to start the vorlauf, and ended up with nothing more than a dribble. Stirred it all up, and tried again. Same result. Decided in the end there was no other option but to pull half the mash out of the tun, and to drain and sparge it in two lots. 1½ hours later, and we had the planned 32 litres into the kettle. Amazingly, I still managed to pull 77% efficiency into the kettle.

Fourth issue, after boiling it for 1½ hours, I didn't lose anywhere near what I thought I would in evaporation. It's now in the fermenter, 25 litres at 1063 (lower than I wanted), on the yeast cake of an hefeweizen brewed a week earlier with Wyeast 3068.

The brew went absolutely nuts in the fermenter, crawling out the top like a king snake only that evening. Just as well I have it down in my garage, and can clean up easily.

This one had better be worth all the effort. At least we had lots of good beers on the day. Did we have fun? You betcha.

Today I racked it to secondary for CCing, and the SG is down to 1013, so I have pretty decent apparent attenuation. The sample tasted promising.

I'll brew this one again sometime, but will have to scale the size of the recipe back to suit my mash tun, or get a larger mash tun.

[Trough Lolly]

Have you had a taster yet? A 1.013 FG should make your batch a belter!!

Cheers,
TL

[warra48]

Have you had a taster yet? A 1.013 FG should make your batch a belter!!

Cheers,
TL

Not yet TL, it's CCing at present, after I racked it on 12/10/08. Probably bottle it in about 3 weeks time. Will report the result.
This recipe was also one of my first AG brews, but because of the lousy efficiency at that time, it wasn't really a true bock, but it turned out a lovely dunkelweizen. Ross tasted a sampler I took up last April, and he was happy to drink the whole stubby.

[Trough Lolly]

If it's any consolation, it's not uncommon to get less than ideal efficiency in the mash when you've got a significant quantity of dark grains in the grist. Dark grains will raise the acidity of the mash and that can impact on extraction efficiency. This is one reason why some brewers recommend you keep the dark grains out of the mashtun and simply steep them separately whilst you mash the base malt and then add the lot to the kettle through your normal sparge routine.

Cheers,
TL

[drsmurto]

Very latecomer to this beer.

probably cos i just dont get into wheat beers. Or belgian beers

Anyway, grabbed a bottle of this on my way home Friday and cracked it Saturday night.

Effin gorgeous.

I have a small sample of 3068 in the fridge but rather than having to make a hefe (only ever made 1 hefe and it took ages to work my way thru it) to get enough yeast i plan on making a 5L starter to get enough yeast.

Cheers for the recipe TL!

[warra48]

You'll love this recipe, DrS. I've brewed it twice now, and will do it again sometime. Highly recommended.

The first time I brewed it, in my early AG days, I undershot my target OG by a fair margin, so it really ended up as more of a dunkelweizen than a weizenbock.
I took a sample up to Ross last year in April, and he thought it was a good dunkel, he drank the whole bottle while I sampled his brews.

The batch I brewed back in October 2008 was cold conditioned until I bottled it on 17/11/08.
It's took a fair while to carb up, but did eventually.
It's now drinking beautifully. At first it was all a jumble of conflicting tastes of malt, esters, alcohol, roastiness, coffee, chocolate etc etc.
It's now all integrated and smoothed out, and a very very nice sipper. Not a session beer.

Next time I brew it I'll know to scale the volume down to about 18 litres or so. Now that I can control my fermentation temperature with my TempMate, I expect it to end up a cleaner brew which will be ready earlier.

[Kevnlis]

I just finished an Aventinus, and it had me thinking about this recipe again. If anyone has a go at my recipe, and wants to send me an analysis sample, I will be more than glad to make it worth your while! I made that beer twice and it is still hands down the best I have ever had, except for one very special keg of Franziskaner Dunkel which blew me away, absolutley the best beer I have ever had, every Franziskaner Dunkel since has been watery crap!

[drsmurto]

For someone who has an aversion to wheat beers its a bit odd that in my yeast bank i found both 3068 and 3638.....

Have put both versions in beersmith to do list.

[Trough Lolly]

I recently received some +ve feedback from AHB regarding my Pikantus recipe so this evening I thought I'd remind myself of what all the fuss is about!!



It's still a great beer! Try it - it's an amazing dark wheat beer with plenty of punch!

Next up is some Aventinus!

Cheers,
TL

[ilovechocolate2002]

One point you may want to note re bottling - don't go too heavy handed on the priming sugars....the yeast will be tired and if you overdo the sugars in order to get a well carbonated beer, the yeast may not have enough viability to do the carbonating job, leaving you with unintended residual sweetness in the flavour profile...

have not heard that one before....have been trying to dry my brews out ....63C -flaked corn etc ....and they still come out a touch sweet or neutral ...could this prob be caused by yeast laziness?? (routinely 1008 FG's)

[Trough Lolly]

What strain of yeast are you using?