Fishy lager

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earle
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by earle »

Another link that is blocked from my work computer http://www.polishforums.com/food-drink- ... iec-10359/
Bum
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Bum »

The only thing I can think of is that lager yeasts can be a bit sulphur-y but that seems pretty different to fishy (to me) and there is no reason I can think of that it would show up again in a US05 dark ale.

The clean brews between does confuse the issue. Do you use multiple fermenters? If so would you be able to reliably trace the fishy brews to one and the clean brews to the other? This would be pretty good news if you could - just chuck it and the gear that was used with it and get a new one - but if there was any doubt at all I wouldn't rely on that as being the answer.

[EDIT: I should clarify - that wouldn't "fix" anything really. It still wouldn't isolate the cause of the taste, it would just get it out of your brewery now.]
Last edited by Bum on Wednesday Jul 14, 2010 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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matr
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by matr »

Maybe they weren't wearing the appropriate attire for the tasting???

Such as Flanny, black jeans, lace up uggs and the compulsary winnie blues in the pocket.. :lol:
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Anna
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Anna »

Well, how about that? Very interesting Earle - glad to know my tastebuds are not as off the planet as I was beginning to think! :o

EDIT: This post refers to Earle's previous find in Google.
Last edited by Anna on Wednesday Jul 14, 2010 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anna
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Anna »

earle wrote:Another link that is blocked from my work computer http://www.polishforums.com/food-drink- ... iec-10359/
I checked that one - different kind of fish Earle!
Bum
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Bum »

earle wrote:Another link that is blocked from my work computer http://www.polishforums.com/food-drink- ... iec-10359/
Yeah, if your work let you read it it would have shown you that "something was fishy" as in suspect/dodgy. Not in terms of taste. The first link may be relevant though. I've never had that beer so I can't say. A quick check of some beer review sites doesn't replicate their fishy observation but to be honest not a great many people have bothered to bash out a review for that particular beer.
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earle
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by earle »

Sorry - bloody site blocker
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Anna
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Anna »

matr wrote:Maybe they weren't wearing the appropriate attire for the tasting???

Such as Flanny, black jeans, lace up uggs and the compulsary winnie blues in the pocket.. :lol:
Oh you're cruel! :evil: My uggs have a zipper up the side! :mrgreen:
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earle
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by earle »

Also this one http://www.alabev.com/tasting_and_evaluating_beer.htm although I can't find anything saying what causes the fishy odor.

Possible suggestions for off flavours in beer that I came accross that may or may not be worth considering are
- using pot for boil that is also used for fish/seafood - the writer claimed that the pot would hold the seafood flavour even when clean
- oxidation
- skunking - what are you bottling in?
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Anna
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Anna »

Bum wrote:The only thing I can think of is that lager yeasts can be a bit sulphur-y but that seems pretty different to fishy (to me) and there is no reason I can think of that it would show up again in a US05 dark ale.

The clean brews between does confuse the issue. Do you use multiple fermenters? If so would you be able to reliably trace the fishy brews to one and the clean brews to the other? This would be pretty good news if you could - just chuck it and the gear that was used with it and get a new one - but if there was any doubt at all I wouldn't rely on that as being the answer.
The Dark Ale was brewed some months before the other two. And yes, I can taste the sulphur in the lager and cerveza, but I know that will go with age. The 'fish' taste is something apart from that.

Yes, I have 2 fermenters going all the time, but have never kept track of which one fermented which beer (unfortunately - you may be on to something there...)

Earle:
- never boiled seafood
- being very careful not to splash these days
- only ever bottle in lovely old thick brown longnecks


Gotta go and do a spreadsheet for the boss. Talk more tomorrow. :wink:

Anna
bullfrog
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by bullfrog »

The dual fermenters could potentially bring it back to a sanitation issue, as opposed to a process one. I'd get both of them empty and bleach the crap out of them. You wouldn't want corroded zippers so try not to splash it on your uggs!
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earle
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by earle »

This one points towards bacterial infection
Creamed Corn/Cooked Vegetables (DMS)
If your beer has an unwanted cooked corn flavor or worse yet, it tastes like oysters, you might have a DMS problem. DMS (dimethyl sulfides) occur in beer either naturally or from a bacterial infection.
The naturally occurring DMS comes from S-methyl methionine (SMM), a product of malt germination. SMM levels in the malt are reduced when it is roasted and never forms as DMS later in your wort. This makes DMS less of an issue in beers that use roasted malts.

DMS is more of a concern in lighter beers, especially lagers, because the lighter grains do not have the SMM removed from roasting. The levels of SMM in your malt are directly related to the levels of DMS in your wort. DMS “breaks” off from SMM during the boil of your wort.


A cooked corn flavor is usually a sign of a DMS problem
As your wort boils, DMS is produced and boiled off. It evaporates and is removed from your beer. That’s good. If you boil your wort with the lid on, the DMS will condense and fall back into the kettle. That’s bad. If you want to avoid DMS, step one is to boil your wort with the lid OFF the brew kettle.

Step two is to boil your wort for at least an hour. The longer your boil is over 158 F, the more DMS is removed from your wort. Slow cooling of your wort will also allow DMS to form, so you want to cool your wort as quickly as possible.

DMS can also form from bacterial infections. An infection can convert Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) into DMS by removing the oxygen. To avoid bacterial DSM, make sure you are practicing good sanitation techniques.

â– Bacterial infections will cause a cooked vegetable flavor
â– Boil your wort for at least an hour with the lid off
â– Lighter beers, such as Pilsners, are more susceptible to DMS problems
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Anna
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Anna »

earle wrote:As your wort boils, DMS is produced and boiled off. It evaporates and is removed from your beer. That’s good. If you boil your wort with the lid on, the DMS will condense and fall back into the kettle. That’s bad. If you want to avoid DMS, step one is to boil your wort with the lid OFF the brew kettle.

Step two is to boil your wort for at least an hour. The longer your boil is over 158 F, the more DMS is removed from your wort. Slow cooling of your wort will also allow DMS to form, so you want to cool your wort as quickly as possible.

â– Bacterial infections will cause a cooked vegetable flavor
â– Boil your wort for at least an hour with the lid off
â– Lighter beers, such as Pilsners, are more susceptible to DMS problems
OMG! Could this possibly be the answer? :shock: I have been doing my boils with the LID ON! Of course, this might not apply to me because doing K&K I have only ever done a short boil with the hop additions, and it's only a very small amount of malt involved. BUT... I've never had fishy tastes in any of my beers without added hops (and hence, no boils). Scientificky people - what do you think?
Bum
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Bum »

My understanding (which is far from scientificky) is that you don't need to worry about this with extracts - more of a concern when they make the extract or when you have done your own mash.

I would very much doubt that is would be present in the extract itself.

But yeah, I don't think it is being suggested as a boil issue but the bacterial infection side of things.
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earle
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by earle »

I boil my extract with the lid off just to be safe. Pop the lid on about a minute before flame out so it gets the steam treatment.
bullfrog
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by bullfrog »

I do the same as Earle. Tried throwing the lid on for steam treatment about 5 minutes before flameout a couple of months back and ended up with a boil over. I would have caught it in time if I weren't pre-occupied with pouring myself another beer. Missus wasn't at all happy that we had wort all over the stove and kitchen floor!

...now it just goes on for one minute.
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Anna
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Anna »

Had another taste of the Fishy Lager last night - still fishy!! :cry: And very bitter - much more so than the calculated IBU of 26.1 :x .
But if it's infected, wouldn't it make me sick? No probs so far.... :?

Anna
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drsmurto
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by drsmurto »

Yes and no.

Some infected beer wont make you sick, some will, it depends on what the infection is.

Sourdough bread contains a bacteria that is a beer spoilage organism. In beer its taste terrible (but wont make you sick), in bread, beautiful.

Some brewers add bacteria to their beer to make lambics etc.
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Anna
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by Anna »

Good to know - I'd hate to have to chuck it out! :?
AidanMatthews
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Re: Fishy lager

Post by AidanMatthews »

Hey anna this post reminds me of my wife. She loves hers fish oil.

this is why i have my beer equipment ie sponge seperate from everything.

she does the dishes an cleans out the medicine cup of fish oil, every god damn dish and cup smells of fish and i hate it.
All Grain - Still learning with Every Batch.
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