lowering FG's

[billybushcook]

I have been playing with some dry Enzyme & a bit of "Dynastart" (yeast nutrient) to try to get my Final Gravities as low as possible,
One brew, a Coopers Pale Ale/BE2 with steeped hops, dry enzyme & S-04 yeast came down to 1.006 & didn't look right at 14 days so I threw in some Dynastart & within 3 days was down to 1.001....yeh yeh! tasted smick at botteling!(not ready to drink yet)
Another was an AG mashed at 64 C & brewed with S-23 came down to 1.002, again a smick beer.

But in between there have been some inconsistancies, could it be from using dry yeasts (always rehydrated & starter used)

For example I have one now, stuck at 1.010, an AG mashed at 63.
All AG's have been as follows:-
4Kg pale pils malt (BB)
0.5Kg wheat malt
0.5Kg flaked maize
yeast S-23

does any one have a suggestion to consistantly get my FG's down as low as possible, as these give the cleanest, freshest tasting beers that I want?

Cheers, Mick.

[warra48]

Sorry Mick, can't really help you, as what you try to achieve is quite opposite to what I want from my beers.
I'm a malty beer loving guy.
I like hops, but it has to be balanced by malt for me.

[Iron-Haggis]

Brew only with sugar. Best way to keep FG down.

I don't understand why a lower gravity gives the "cleanest, freshest" tasting beer. The lower the gravity the less body your beer has and I can't see how that gives cleaner and fresher taste.

[Bum]

More body = more in the beer, right? Less in the beer means less to taste.

Every time I hear someone saying "I want a clean, crisp beer," all I hear is "I'm not sure I really like beer." I hope no one takes offence to that statement - it is more about my perceptions and preferences than yours.

BTW, chucking 2kg of white sugar into Beersmith gives an FG of 1.008 (unless I'm doing something wrong). not sure that'd get him as low as he wants. Has anyone tried doing a beer with champers yeast? (Where is that vomit smiley when you need it?)

[Tipsy]

More body = more in the beer, right? Less in the beer means less to taste.

Every time I hear someone saying "I want a clean, crisp beer," all I hear is "I'm not sure I really like beer." I hope no one takes offence to that statement - it is more about my perceptions and preferences than yours.

I think clean crisp beers are all about taste.
I make a lot of light style beers with just a single bittering hop addition and I can taste the difference between one that is bittered with Galena against one thats bittered with N'Brewer for e.g.
It is a lot harder after drinking heavier style beers (I'm drinking a stout now) but that is more due to my taste buds adjusting to the heavier tastes.

I think the main thing with making lighter style beers is to keep them balanced or they can come out very ordinary.

And I don't take offence to your statement because I make all styles of beer.

[Tipsy]

Oh and Mick, FWIW I tried the enzymes and didn't like them.

For me to get a light dry style beer I'll add corn or sugar (yet to try rice) and stay away from crystal malts.
For colour I'll add a small amount of roasted barley, it helps to keep that dryness.

[billybushcook]

I think the main thing with making lighter style beers is to keep them balanced or they can come out very ordinary.

Bingo,
The lighter (more commercial styles) need to be well balanced & a single 60 Min addition of hops is all that is required & carries over some flavour as well.

The trick now is to get consistant FG's to get consistent beers because the balance is so critical with the lighter styles, while I can set the IBU to a consistant level, the sweetness or unfermented sugars in each batch is what is the touchy thing now.

My real question was more like:-
What are the best yeasts to use for the lowest FG with Consistancy?
Any other tricks/products?
How far below 65 should I mash?, 62/63C?

Not so much a recipe thing but a consistent brewing method question!

It is a case of matching the IBU, with the FG of each individual batch, but the IBU is pre-set before I know the actual FG.

I have tried Wyeast 2124?? Bo Pils yeast, but I had a bit of crystal in that one & it only came down to about 1.008, still a nice beer though, hopped it up to 30+IBU with two additions.

Have now increased the Flaked Maize in my grain bill for AG's to 1Kg & dropped the P/pils malt back to 3.5, See how that goes?

More body = more in the beer, right? Less in the beer means less to taste.

Every time I hear someone saying "I want a clean, crisp beer," all I hear is "I'm not sure I really like beer." I hope no one takes offence to that statement

No offence taken, but it is maybe, "I like Lagers"
All I hear from those who say "I like dark malty beers" is "I'd drink mud" (if it had alcohol in it)

True- more in the beer = more body.
More body requires more hops to balance it up, & a darker, fuller beer........not what I'm looking for!!

I'm trying to get consistant, crisp, clean, dry beers, similar to commercial style Aussie beers, ie, lightly hopped Lagers.

Cheers, Mick.

[Bum]

I think the big boys spend multiple millions of dollars to be able to get close to the repeatability you're talking about (and some would argue that they also remove all the ingredients you're just discovered yourself). Holding your brewing up against that measure is never going to end well.

Incidentally, my (limited) experience is that I'm not a huge fan of dark, malty beers either. Preference is usually for heavily hopped pale ales. Not interesting or relevant - just mentioning it for the sake of accuracy.

[billybushcook]

Holding your brewing up against that measure is never going to end well.

I'm hear'n ya!
But, If'n I can get my ferments to be consistant, I'm in with a chance?
Aside from the Pasturisation process, when I brew AG, the rest is all the same?

Mick.

[Bum]

I have no experience of megaswill brewing but my understanding is that most of the big commercial lagers don't have much (anything?) in the way of spec grains, hops (iso-, aside), and I have been told, by a CUB employee (although he does just drive trucks for them so I don't really believe it (I will however repeat this libellous information here)) that most are extract based.

All the above is purest heresay and I will happily accept all informed corrections.

That aside, predictability of your brews is an admirable goal but when our only real controls have an ever so slight random quality to them maybe we're pushing the proverbial uphill. Besides, variety is the spice of life.

[warra48]

If you are wishing to brew AG light bodied lagers, you will be on a rather long learning curve.

Basic AG brewing is not really difficult. Particularly with heavier bodied ales such as Browns, Porters, Stouts etc, you have lots of places where minor faults can hide, or even add some complexity to the brew. With heavier hopped styles such as APAs or IPAs the hop factor will do the same hiding job.

With light lagers, you have nowhere to hide any faults wheresoever. To keep them balanced, you need to keep the hopping level consistent with the body (or lack of it) of the beer. Any fault, even a minor one, will stand out like the proverbial. You can't hide faults like chill haze, DMS, or any of the other minor off flavours which can easily develop.

If you can control your mashing to give you a consistent efficiency outcome, you are able to build up a good sized starter of the appropriate quality yeast, pitch cold, and control your fermentation and lagering temperatures, then you are in with a chance. You might also want to consider filtering your beer prior to bottling or kegging.

This is not to say it can't be done, but it's not the path most would choose in the first instance.
Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I wish you luck!

Don't let me put you off. If you have this as your goal, go for it, I'm merely pointing out some of the potential hurdles.