Hopiness of porters.....?

[mobydick]

Hi I'm looking for some input on hoppiness of porters.

I got inspired by Brewsmith and threw this down based on BS guidelines. It's a Baltic Porter, which basically means 'clean out the cupboard - scrounge what you can' evidently.

Recipe

1.7 Kg Coopers Lager kit (IBU approx 23) added at flameout
1.5 Kg Blackrock dark liquid malt (boiled for 30 min)
.45 Kg Llyles Golden Syrup
.5 Kg Honey
.2 Kg Lactose

.25 Kg Choc malt
.25 Kg Roasted Barley
.1 Kg Carapils
.05 Kg Caramunich

All grains brought very slowly to 66 degrees then steeped for 15 minutes

15g Galena for 30 min
15g Hallertau NZ 10 min

London Ale yeast 1028

OG = 1.070
IBU = about 40

Anyway, I figure the lager kit wont be very hoppy, anyway I've been conservative on the hop additions. It comes in at about 40 IBU which is supposedly about right for a Baltic Porter.

Where do you guys think I stand with aroma hops though? It's a witchs brew I know but, should a porter have much aroma, and have I got enough/ too much? What do you reakon?

[drsmurto]

I put roast barley in my porters as well but its apparently not according to style.

My only criticism of your recipe is the hops, fuggles or EKG would be more appropriate in a porter IMO and would balance your other ingredients better than the hallertau.

Oh, and i wouldnt bother with the lactose. With all that spec grain i wouldnt have thought it was needed.

Looks like a very tasty brew MobyD!

[Trough Lolly]

John Palmer emailed his Sierra Nevada Porter Clone back in 2000...here it is if you're interested:

Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:03:03 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer>
Subject: Sierra Nevada Porter Clone

>>>Snip<<<
Here is my recipe that I derived from conversations with the brewer at SN about 6 years ago.

Port O' Palmer
Malts
6 lbs. of Pale Malt Extract (syrup)
1/2 lb. of Chocolate Malt
1/2 lb. of Crystal 60L Malt
1/4 lb. of Black Patent Malt

BG for 3 Gallons 1.079
OG for 5 Gallons 1.048

Hops
1 oz of Nugget (10%) at 60 minutes
3/4 oz of Willamette (5%) at 40 minutes
1/2 oz of Willamette (5%) at 20 minutes

Total IBUs 39

Yeast: American Ale

Options
All-Extract
4 lbs. of Pale Malt LME
2 lbs. of Amber DME
1 lb. of Dark DME.

All-Grain
7.5 lbs. of 2 Row Base Malt
or British Pale Ale Malt
1/2 lb. of Chocolate Malt
1/2 lb. of Crystal 60L Malt
1/4 lb. of Black Patent Malt

I first brewed this recipe just before the Northridge earthquake, and fortunately the fermenter didn't tip over during it. I don't know if it roused the yeast any, but it could have been a factor! Very good beer.
John

Obviously it isn't a Baltic Porter, but it doesn't use roasted barley which is an excellent malt, but IMHO should be reserved for stouts. I use Carafa for porters instead of Roasted Barley. Let's see what the BJCP guidelines suggest for a Baltic:

12C. Baltic Porter
Aroma: Rich malty sweetness often containing caramel, toffee, nutty to deep toast, and/or licorice notes. Complex alcohol and ester profile of moderate strength, and reminiscent of plums, prunes, raisins, cherries or currants, occasionally with a vinous Port-like quality. Some darker malt character that is deep chocolate, coffee or molasses but never burnt. No hops. No sourness. Very smooth.

Appearance: Dark reddish copper to opaque dark brown (not black). Thick, persistent tan-colored head. Clear, although darker versions can be opaque.

Flavor: As with aroma, has a rich malty sweetness with a complex blend of deep malt, dried fruit esters, and alcohol. Has a prominent yet smooth schwarzbier-like roasted flavor that stops short of burnt. Mouth-filling and very smooth. Clean lager character; no diacetyl. Starts sweet but darker malt flavors quickly dominates and persists through finish. Just a touch dry with a hint of roast coffee or licorice in the finish. Malt can have a caramel, toffee, nutty, molasses and/or licorice complexity. Light hints of black currant and dark fruits. Medium-low to medium bitterness from malt and hops, just to provide balance. Perhaps a hint of hop flavor.

Mouthfeel: Generally quite full-bodied and smooth, with a well-aged alcohol warmth (although the rarer lower gravity Carnegie-style versions will have a medium body and less warmth). Medium to medium-high carbonation, making it seem even more mouth-filling. Not heavy on the tongue due to carbonation level.

Overall Impression: A Baltic Porter often has the malt flavors reminiscent of an English brown porter and the restrained roast of a schwarzbier, but with a higher OG and alcohol content than either. Very complex, with multi-layered flavors.

History: Traditional beer from countries bordering the Baltic Sea. Derived from English porters but influenced by Russian Imperial Stouts.

Comments: May also be described as an Imperial Porter, although heavily roasted or hopped versions should be entered as either Imperial Stouts or specialty beers. An ABV of 7 - 8.5% is most typical.

Ingredients: Generally lager yeast (cold fermented if using ale yeast). Debittered chocolate or black malt. Munich or Vienna base malt. Continental hops. May contain crystal malts and/or adjuncts. Brown or amber malt common in historical recipes.

Vital Statistics:OG FG IBUs SRM ABV
1.060 - 1.090 1.016 - 1.024 20 - 40 17 - 30 5.5 - 9.5%

Commercial Examples: Sinebrychoff Porter (Finland), Zywiec Porter (Poland), Baltika Porter (Russia), Carnegie Stark Porter (Sweden), Dojlidy Polski (Poland), Aldaris Porteris (Latvia), Utenos Porter (Lithuania), Kozlak Porter (Poland), Stepan Razin Porter (Russia)
Note: emphasis added

So....I'd replace the 250g of Roasted Barley with Carafa I, drop the Lactose and bitter to 30 IBU with Northern Brewer or Goldings to balance out the strong malt profile. The 1028 is a good choice IMHO...

Cheers,
TL

[drsmurto]

I used carafa II in my first porter. What are the differences between carafa I, II and III?

[warra48]

I have just this morning put down a Porter exactly according to Palmer's recipe (it's still in the 3rd edition of his book), except I used double the crystal malt, just because I had it available. I put all the grains through a mash and batch sparge, as a training exercise to move into AG brewing, even though a steep may have done. I pitched it up to 19 litres onto the WLP001 yeast cake of an APA I racked this morning, and 2 hours later it has taken off like there is no tomorrow, bubbling away at 20ºC. The hydrometer sample was sweet but very tasty with chocolate overtones. I'm looking forward to drinking this brew later in the year.

[mobydick]

Thanks for your input fella's. I think based upon what the consensus is re hops I won't add any more and call it a Speciality Beer or Imperial Stout. Doesn't really bother me what it's called as long as its tasty. Here's hoping! I think I'm getting the Partial Mash bug as the brews I've made with specialty grains has really upped the standard. If anyone has a good beginner partial mash recipe for an ale, please point me at it.

[drsmurto]

According to the bjcp guidelines both a brown and a robust porter are allowd to have roasted barley.

So i reckon what Mobydick is brewing is more like these styles than the baltic porter.

Only had a look cos i was thinking of putting my 'porter' in a show to be judged and was unsure as to what category to put it in. I think mine is a brown porter.

[mobydick]

Thanks Doc. The reason I went for the Hallertau hops is because I thought they are supposed to be an NZ version of Halletauer. I thought if making a Baltic Porter I should use Continental hops. If however as you say, what I've done is more a Robust Porter, then I probably would have been better with Fuggles or EKG. Oh Well. I will punish myself by forcing myself to drink my mistakes I'll let you know how it turns out.

[drsmurto]

If you like it Moby then its not a mistake but a stroke of genius! And least thats how i look and my 'interesting' beers that dont fit into style categories!

[Trough Lolly]

I used carafa II in my first porter. What are the differences between carafa I, II and III?

Colour, mainly.
They each contribute roughly the same gravity points per kilo per litre to the grainbill and I'm working on the assumption that we're talking about the de-husked Carafa Special malt. It's a lot less bitter than Choc malt and I've used it in lieu of choc malt on a number of occasions.
Basically Carafa III (1300-1500 EBC) is kilned at a higher temp than Carafa II (1000-1200 EBC) which is kilned at a higher temp than Carafa I (800-1000 EBC).
Cheers,
TL

[drsmurto]

Nice work there TL, explains what i should have realised.

The porter i made with 500g of carafa II (yes, the de-husked special) was as black as the ace of spades whereas my latest creation which has 450g of choc and 50g of roast barley is dark brown with a reddish tinge (and is the one i am going to enter as a brown porter in a comp).

Cheers for that TL
DrSmurto

[mobydick]

I've made a couple of excellent mistakes thus far on my brewing journey - I'm drinking one now, I had no idea that 15g of Cascade dry hopped would be so intense.

[drsmurto]

Mmmmm dry hopped cascade. I made the modified Boonies LCPA recipe and swapped around the cascade and chinook. Dry hopped at rack with 20g of cascade and then dry hopped again in the keg with 10g. Intense it is.

[mobydick]

Hey fellas, my Special Imperial Porter has been in the fermenter 12 days now. The gravity came down from 1070 to 1023 after 8 days. Day 12 and its 1022. Seems to have finished, but 1022 seems pretty high still. Is that due to the lactose? What do you think, is it done?

[rwh]

If it's been above 16 then I reckon it's prolly done.

[mobydick]

Yeah the temp has been about 17-19 degrees the whole time.

[drsmurto]

Assuming a volume of 21L i get 1.078 - 1.019 and a warming 8.7% abv.

Have you tasted the gravity readings? Sounds like a ballsy porter!

[mobydick]

Nah Doc - the volume was 23 litres. I have tasted the gravity readings and it's very promising. Chocolatey, smooth, lots of body. But as you say, 1019 would be right for 21 litres. I might rack it off and see if it drops another few points over this week.

[MiniMoose]

how did this t murn out mobydick? sure does sound great.

[mobydick]

It turned out rather well, but a little too sweet for my taste. I'd drop the lactose from the recipe altogether. It's still improving however.