Bottle/rack lager

[stevem]

I am looking at doing a lager for my next brew. I have the fridge and have worked out how to keep it at approx 10 deg C for fermentation. I have read conflicting info on the lager/bottle stage.

Do I
1) rack after primary fermentation, lager for 4 weeks and bottle
or
2) bottle after primary fermentation and then lager for 4 weeks in the bottle?

Thanks
Steve

[Evo]

Don't think it really matters although you'll get a clearer beer by racking.

[Oliver]

Apparently you need to give it a diacetyl rest after primary fermentation to allow the butterscotch flavors to dissapate. You do this by allowing the brew to come back to room temperature for a couple of days (is this when one would rack a lager?).

Then bottle and put in the fridge to lager for a month or so.

Someone on this forum knows a lot more about this than me, so keep an eye out on this thread.

Cheers,

Oliver

[Solar]

I botlled my first brew 9 days ago, a coopers lager can. I let it sit in bottles at fermentation temperature for 9 days. Just put it in my beer fridge tonight to lager for a while. I opened a stubby so i could compare how it tastes and will probably try another after 2 weeks in the fridge.

I just assumed that lagering was done after secondary fermentation, dont know why.

Being my first brew i'm not very qualified to comment on my lagering successes or failures but i did rip open a stubby so i had something to compare to.

Will post here when i try another bottle in a couple of weeks

[thehipone]

Depending on the strain of yeast you are using a diacetyl rest may not be totally necesary, I know there is one strain of German lager yeast that really cranks the stuff out. The D-rest is technically supposed to be done when the beer is 2/3 of the way done fermenting, the yeast eat up the diacetyl and convert it to more neutral chemicals. I think the way to do it would be to do the D-rest in primary, then rack to secondary to finish off the fermentation. I've always bottled and then lagered, but it should accomplish the same thing if you do it in secondary or in bottles.

[stevem]

Thanks for responses so far. I put the brew down on Saturday. I have used SAFLager yeast. I think I will bottle then lager. My concern is that if I bottle after lagering that there might not be enough suspended yeast for secondary fermentation.

Steve

[Dogger Dan]

There will be.

Yeast is pretty determined

Dogger

[Solar]

Ok so my first brew has been in the fridge 'lagering' for 2 weeks after 9 days on the shelf (bottled) for secondary. Last night i had a couple friends over for a bbq so i thought perfect time to sample a few.

My friend turns up with a 6 pack of VB and offers me one. I politely decline and reach for one of mine. It seems the 2 weeks in the fridge did a lot for my beer. A little on the sweet side still but very smooth and nice to drink, noticeably smoother than the stubby i tried just prior to fridging it. The poor head retention was dissapointing though. Over all was i was pleased with it and it was 100 times better than the stuff my mate brought over.

After 2 VB's he gets the courage to try one of my homebrews:- glug, glug, glug....."wow this beer's got flavour". We ended up drinking a dozen longnecks and he left his VB in my fridge

Oh yeah, woke up with a clear head too

I like this lagering business.

[Dogger Dan]

Get that VB out, I understand it contaminates homebrew if it ais anywhere close to it

By the way, congratulations on your first batch of free brew.

Dogger

[Solar]

Thanks Dogger and dont worry about the VB. I took care of it the next morning, before breakfast too

Even before i started brewing i never went near VB.

[Oliver]

Solar,

As noted in a previous post, keep the VB for next time you clean your BBQ. It lifts anything off the hotplate

Cheers,

Oliver

[stevem]

Just an update on my lager.
After primary fermentation I racked to secondary and started the lager process. After a couple of days I bottled 20 stubbies and put them straight back into the fridge to continue the lager process. After 4 weeks I bottled the rest of the batch.
The first lot turned out fine. After 2 weeks out of the fridge it has carbonated nicely. I am very impressed with the beer.
However the 2nd lot appears to have zero carbonation after 2 weeks. I did detect after leaving the glass of flat beer on the counter for awhile some very tiny bubbles appeared after the beer warmed up slightly. At this stage I will give it another couple of weeks or more and see if carbonation improves. If not I will consider trying to add some yeast to each bottle.
Any comments or advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Steve

[Dogger Dan]

Steve,

Be willing to put odds on the yeast being killed off by the cold. Add a few grains to the bottles as you figure. It should be OK capped if you want to wait

Dogger

[Guest]

So, in a nutshell and apart from VB=catspiss, what is the take home message from all this.

Do we ferment at 10C then bottle at room temp and leave for a week then put in fridge for 2 weeks. Or do we ferment, rack into a secondary for x amount of time at ??? temp, then bottle and fridge. Or have I totally missed the fricken point and get an F for Lager Theory 101

How long is a good fermentation time for a lager?

Waiting eagerly for the chillier months to start brewing lagers and want to get it all sorted out in my head now.

Cheers,
Jay.

[stevem]

Dogger,
If the cold killed off the yeast, surely it would have killed off the yeast in the bottles as well? The secondary and the bottles were all in the same fridge subject to the same conditions. Perhaps a case of the yeast in the secondary having settlled out and not enough left for secondary fermentation?

Cheers
Steve

[Guest]

Cold, well 10C cold, shouldn't kill yeast. It should just go dormant.

I'm no expert, but maybe the yeast has eaten up all the available sugars after 4 weeks (there shouldn't be too much to start with) and settled out of the secondary so you don't have enough yeast in the beer to get a decent secondary fermentation in your bottle. Did you prime with enough sugar?

Think of the bottles of coopers that you can make yeast starters from, they can be stored at 2-4C for a number of months and still have culturable yeast.

Jay.

[Guest]

Sorry stevem, that's what you just said.

[stevem]

Here is a try at a better summary of events:

Full brew in Primary for 2 weeks @ 10C
Racked full brew to secondary
Diactyl rest @ 20c for 24 hours.
Start of lagering:
Full brew @ 1-2C for 2 days. Bottled 20 stubbies, primed with carbonation drops. Placed stubbies in same fridge as secondary immediatley after bottling.
Lagered 20 stubbies and secondary for total of 4 weeks @ 1-2C
Bottled rest of brew in secondary. Primed with carbonation drops.
All stubbies stored for 2 weeks at approx 24C.
Carbonation of first 20 stubbies fine.
Carbonation of rest of batch non existing.

My recommendation so far is to bottle then lager.

Regards
Steve

[Beer Krout]

Just looking at your summary.
I guess the bottled lagered beer has had 6 weeks to build up a carbonation (even though for 4 weeks of low temps it shouldn't have been doing that).
The secondary lagered beer has only had 2 weeks to build up carbonation.
This could be a possible explanation.

I concur with your conclusion.

[Jeff]

I've brewed a Tooheys Lager (a gift 'cause I wouldn't normally touch anything with that name on it). Two weeks in fermenter, one week on carbonation then I've added beers to the fridge for lagering up to 8-12 weeks. An email to Tooheys first for advice given the suggested ferment temps made me think they'd supplied an ale yeast - they would not confirm the yeast but did confirm that lagering in this way would improve the beer

IT DID - smooth and easy on the way down!