Drunkin Bunyip wrote:wats the max temp that saflager yeasts can ferment at?
For the S-23, Fermentis recommends 9C-15C, ideally 12C. You can ferment up to ale temps fine, but you won't get a true lager flavour profile.
And how much of a taste difference is it really going to make to the flaver if it ferments at fluxuating temps between say 17c - 22c?
Do you mean fluctuating air temperatures or fluctuating wort temperatures? If your room temp was going to fluctuate that much, then it'd be absolutely ideal conditions for an ale. You have to remember that 23L or wort has a lot of thermal mass and will barely fluctuate at all if your ambient is fluctuating by 5°C. If the wort temp is fluctuating that much then you will probably start to get some funky flavours from the yeast adapting all the time.
As for if you ferment a lager at higher temperatures, you will start to see some of the ale characteristics sneaking in to your flavour profile. Things like esters (fruity flavours) might start to appear. Not that these are necessarily bad, just different, not in the traditional lager style. But have a read up about steam beers if you want to know what you'll get from fermenting with a lager yeast at ale temperatures.
Is it worth useing this yeast in theese conditions or should i just stick with the suplied yeast?
Well that's the million dollar question, isn't it? I happen to like the Coopers kit yeasts.
and wat exactly is a starter is it some way to save on yeast money iv read bits and pieces but dont quit get it?
A yeast starter is a way of increasing the population of your yeast. You can use it to take one sample of yeast, increase its population, and then split it up across multiple brews. A lot of people do this to make using a liquid yeast (which can cost up to $15) more cost effective. Another use for a starter is culturing up yeast from a bottle of beer, say a Coopers or Chimay, where you have a tiny population of yeast that needs to be multiplied many times before it can be used for brewing a complete batch of beer.
Here are some links on making yeast starers:http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.htmlhttp://hbd.org/uchima/yeaststart/yeaststart.html
If you are using dried yeast, you do not need to create a starter, as the sachets contain a huge number of yeast that have been metabolically optimised for pitching directly into the wort.
Also its my understanding the suplied yeasts r no good and that i really should use a better lager yeast for my lagers etc
Supplied yeasts are not necessarily no good, but you will probably get a more satisfying result if you use a higher quality yeast, and especially if you go to liquid yeasts (which are more difficult to use and more expensive, so you should do a few batches with dried yeasts first).
It is certainly advisable to replace a kit ale yeast with a true lager yeast if you have the capability to ferment at a low temperature.
but if i cant keep the temp down enough would it improve my brew to use a safale yeast?
Why don't you give it a go and find out?