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I am devising a K&K strong ale.

I am planning to use the Coopers Real Ale kit along with the Lager kit that came with the set-up.

1.7kg Coopers Real Ale
1.7kg Coopers Lager

0.5kg Light DME
0.5kg Amber DME

0.1kg Crystal Malt
0.3kg Chocolate Malt

25g Fuggles steeped

S04 yeast



I hope to have it bottle conditioned in time for winter.

Hi Mattrox,

Looks OK, but a few comments follow.

I haven't got Beersmith with me at the moment to work out OG, but given the quantity of fermentables I'd be inclined to make a yeast starter and/or use two packets of yeast. Also make sure you oxygenate well by splashing as much as possible when you're filling the fermenter. These two things will help attenuation so you don't end up with something overly sweet.

Can someone with Beersmith on hand do some calculations about whether this beer will be sufficiently bitter (IBUs of Coopers can thread)? I am not sure whether you may be sensible to replace some of the malt extract with dextrose to cut down on residual sugars and therefore sweetness, or to add some extra hops. The Coopers Lager can is not that bitter. An alternative would be to use a kit with higher IBU.

You might also investigate getting Beersmith yourself. If you don't want to fork out for brewing software, check out BrewMate, which by most reports is a pretty good program.

Cheers,

Oliver

I did put the data into IanH's spreadsheet and it all came up all good for Strong Ale.

I was going to ask about the yeast. Would it spoil the brew if I threw one of the kit yeasts in with the S 04? Or is it better to get the 04 started on some wort 30 or so mins before pitching?

I fill much fv direct from 11L spring water jugs, the kind on the office water cooler. Plenty of gurgling, splashing and agitation as I add the water. I get the water from the West End brewery, Adelaide artesian water, plenty of minerals and no chlorine to deal with.

I would stick to the one yeast strain.

The idea of a starter is to build up the number of yeast cells that you pitch, and that's not going to happen if you only start 30 minutes before you pitch. See DrSmurto's thread on making yeast starters and reusing yeast.

According to Fermentis, the attenuation of S04 is about 75%, while US05 is 81%. You might want to think about going for the latter. Even though the character of the finished beer will be different, it will be less sweet.

Others may have thoughts counter to this ...

Oliver

The spreadsheet tells me the IBU without boiling hops is 51.6 IBU. Is this enough to counter sweetness? Even boiling a small amount of hops for an hour puts it up to 56.5, the guide says 60 IBU max for this style.

I would think that the 51.6 would be fine (solely looking at numbers) because the calculated (OG 1.067) is on the lower side of the guide for this style too.

If you go by the IBUs on the link above to this page you will get 70 IBU (28.8 from the Lager and 41.4 from the Real Ale) in 23 litres.

Looking for some input on the recipe from others ...

Oliver

I agree with the 70ibu. The only toucan I've done was with a dark ale and lager kit and at about 68ibu iirc the concern was that it would be too bitter so I added a good chunk of crystal and used Windsor as a low attenuating yeast. Turned out pretty good but needed months to mellow. You have some crystal and an extra kg of DME so I think you're on the right track with no bittering additions.

Thanks. Well that looks like the bitterness could balance out the sweetness. My palate is not offended if things are on the sweet side anyway. However, I will make a yeast starter for this.

I plan to bulk prime, does anyone know how much a 20L Willow Jerry Can actually holds? I have one handy rather than buying another container.

earle wrote:I agree with the 70ibu. The only toucan I've done was with a dark ale and lager kit and at about 68ibu iirc the concern was that it would be too bitter so I added a good chunk of crystal and used Windsor as a low attenuating yeast. Turned out pretty good but needed months to mellow. You have some crystal and an extra kg of DME so I think you're on the right track with no bittering additions.

Just saw this post. Thanks for the input, we'll see how it turns out. And I hope to have it drinkable on those cold winter nights so I have time for it to mellow.

Still really in the planning stages as I have a European Lager going now which is likely to occupy the FV for a month or so.

Mattrox wrote:... does anyone know how much a 20L Willow Jerry Can actually holds? I have one handy rather than buying another container.

I need to know the same thing about a container a Grain and Grape "Artisanale" wetpack came in. They reckon it's 17 litres but I'd like to know exactly because I plan on using it for no-chilling.

What I'd planned to do was to put the container on bathroom scales then fill it with water. The increase in kilograms is (almost exactly) equal to the increase in volume in litres. Gotta love the metric system.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Oliver

Mattrox wrote:Thanks. Well that looks like the bitterness could balance out the sweetness. My palate is not offended if things are on the sweet side anyway. However, I will make a yeast starter for this.

I plan to bulk prime, does anyone know how much a 20L Willow Jerry Can actually holds? I have one handy rather than buying another container.

24lts bulging at the sides with hot wort.

Thanks for that.

So a 23L brew could be siphoned into it for a bulk prime without leaving litres of it behind. Handy to know.

I knew the yeast in wort for 30 mins didn't come from nowhere. ....

http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/upl ... FA_S04.pdf

I guess a head start isn't enough with that amount of fermentables to chew through.

That page recommends 50-80g/hectolitre (100 litres), which is 11.5g-18.4g/23 litres, by my calculations.

Now, the sachet is 11.5g (as much coincidence as 24 beers in a slab, 24 hours in a day, if you ask me).

So if you are adding just a sachet you are pitching the absolute minimum recommended for a 23-litre batch.

Hence the recommendation for a starter or two sachets, given the gravity of your beer.

Cheers,

Oliver

Cheers.

Mattrox wrote:I am devising a K&K strong ale.

I am planning to use the Coopers Real Ale kit along with the Lager kit that came with the set-up.

1.7kg Coopers Real Ale
1.7kg Coopers Lager

0.5kg Light DME
0.5kg Amber DME

0.1kg Crystal Malt
0.3kg Chocolate Malt

25g Fuggles steeped

S04 yeast



I hope to have it bottle conditioned in time for winter.

I did this but used Cooper's BE 2 + 750g Dex and 250g Chocolate malt.

OG 1070


Quite bitter from the OG sample, should be a great winter drop.

Only used the adjuncts because I wanted to use up supplies.

Will def. try a version with malt extract rather than adjuncts.

SG down to 1035.... been 3 days in fv

Should also be a beautiful colour.

At a guess, with those ingredients and an OG of 1.070 you'll probably get a FG around 1.020.

Good luck with this one.

Oliver

SG now 1017.......

Now to find time to bottle it up.