Long Rests For Unmalted Grains

[Kevnlis]

OK, I have decided to finally mash the Blue Moon brew. The recipe is as follows:

2.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.6 SRM) Grain 38.10 %
1.50 kg Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 28.57 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (7.0 SRM) Grain 19.05 %
0.50 kg Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 9.52 %
0.25 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4.76 %
30.00 gm Tettnang [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 15.7 IBU
10.00 gm Saaz [3.20 %] (10 min) Hops 1.2 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.20 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
15.00 gm Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
30.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit II (White Labs #WLP410) Yeast-Ale

Note there are 3 kilos of malted and 2.25 kilos of unmalted grain. I am assuming this means I will need some rather large rests. So I plugged the info into Beersmith (gotta love it) and told it I wanted to do an infusion mash with precooked adjuncts (is this right?) and it spit out the following mash procedure. I just want to know if you guys think the rests are right etc.

30 min Protein Rest Add 8.76 L of water at 44.1 C 40.0 C
45 min Protein Rest Add 3.29 L of water at 82.7 C 50.0 C
60 min Saccharification Add 7.67 L of water at 94.0 C 65.6 C
10 min Mash Out Add 9.86 L of water at 97.6 C 75.6 C

Makes a 33L boil for a 23L batch. Also please note I am using the BIAB process (which shouldn't make a difference right?).

[Fents]

Cant really answer you but for any BIAB info go here

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... 694&st=660

Or PM any number of BIAB's on AHB.

just be very carefull, bit of a debate on at the moment.

[chris.]

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[Kevnlis]

I guess I should mention the flaked grains are actually Wheat Bix, Rolled Oats, and Puffed Rice.

Because of the fact that these cerals are processed and pre-cooked it is suggested to use longer rests at 40, 50 and 65. It is also suggested to mash out before removing the grain which is easy enough. But all up it is recommending 2 and a half hours of mashing! I don't mind spending a bit of time for a good brew, but is it really necessary? Could I maybe cut the rests by 50% time and still come out alright?

I do not want to boil them, I think that would be disaster. Also the unmalted grain needs the enzymes from the malt grains to help break the protiens down doesn't it?

The idea of a single rest is good Chris, it is what the guy that made the recipe I based this off did, I just want to make sure I get it right. It is a fair bit of grain to waste IYKWIM.

Where is TL when you need him?

[chris.]

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[Kevnlis]

So boil the unmalted grains for an hour then mash for 90 min as per usual with the malted grains or add it at mash out?

I have looked at the salt content and it is not a concern.

[chris.]

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[Kevnlis]

So boil the unmalted grains for an hour then mash for 90 min as per usual with the malted grains or add it at mash out?

I believe that if your using the Wheetbix & Puffed Rice you might not even need to boil them as they've already been cooked.

So add them at the end of the boil like a can kit? What about the rolled oats? Boil them for the last 20 min or so?

[chris.]

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[Kevnlis]

So boil the unmalted grains for an hour then mash for 90 min as per usual with the malted grains or add it at mash out?

I believe that if your using the Wheetbix & Puffed Rice you might not even need to boil them as they've already been cooked.

So add them at the end of the boil like a can kit? What about the rolled oats? Boil them for the last 20 min or so?

No put them in at the start of the mash along with the grain.

All up you've got around 40% adjuncts/unmalted grain in that mash. I've never gone that high. I wonder if thats going be too much for the enzymes from your grain to handle?

From what I could tell the average grain produces enough to break down nearly 5 times it's weight in unmalted grains. I have lost the link but it was posted on wikipedia which is usually fairly accurate. It happened to be the only real source of data I could find on the subject (and it wasn't much).

OK so boil the rolled oats for 20 min, then add to the mash with the rest of the stuff rest at 50 for ?? and mash for ?? min at 65C?

[rwh]

From what I could tell the average grain produces enough to break down nearly 5 times it's weight in unmalted grains. I have lost the link but it was posted on wikipedia which is usually fairly accurate. It happened to be the only real source of data I could find on the subject (and it wasn't much).

No, most grain isn't that hot. Perhaps american 6-row, but you're average Australian two row can really only convert some smaller proportion of adjuncts, say 20-40%.

OK so boil the rolled oats for 20 min, then add to the mash with the rest of the stuff rest at 50 for ?? and mash for ?? min at 65C?

Rest at 50 for 30 mins and rest at 65 for 60 minutes.

[chris.]

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[Kevnlis]

Thanks heaps guys. I am just a bit paro because of the high cooked adjunct content.

[Trough Lolly]

G'day all...FWIW I totally agree with Chris. and rwh's comments. Using cereals can be tricky if you need to gelatinise the cereal as Chris mentioned. Have a read of Jeff Renner's excellent articles on making a Classic American Pilsener (CAP) in the following digest article on making CAP's and Cream Ales. Jeff raised the brewing bar when he made "His Fathers Moustache" back in '94.

Click here...

Cheers,
TL

[chris.]

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[Kevnlis]

Just out of interest how did this mash go Kevnlis?

I actually changed it a bit, but I tried it earlier tonight and it is quite nice despite having been in bottle for less than a week

Even my wife was impressed and she is not much of a beer snob

The recipe as made up is as follows:

2.25 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.6 SRM) Grain 47.37 %
1.00 kg Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 21.05 %
0.75 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 15.79 %
0.50 kg Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.53 %
0.25 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %
30.00 gm Tettnang [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 16.5 IBU
10.00 gm Saaz [3.20 %] (10 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.20 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
30.00 gm Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
30.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit II (White Labs #WLP410) Yeast-Ale

The flaked wheat was Aldi Wheat Bix, and the flaked oats was Home Brand Rolled Oats.