water acidity and quality for a AG pils

[gibbocore]

Hi,

I read through this thread;
http://www.homebrewandbeer.com/forum/vi ... c&start=40
and didn;t really get an answer i needed, so i guess i wanted to know that if i was to buy soft water would it improve my first pils, or can i use my tap water, it has a ph of 7.4-8.4, is that hard or soft?

and do i need to do multiple hot water additions if i'm doing a single infusion esky style mash?

Reading palmers has made what i hoped was going to be relativly simple heaps more complex

cheers

[drsmurto]

pH has very little/next to nothing to do with soft or hard water - its the amount of calcium and carbonate ions in the water.

If you let us know where you are located we can point you in the direction of the local water quality sites. Each state will publish the water quality reports for a given year which you can then use to adjust the water chemistry depending on what you want to brew.

I believe Melbourne water is pretty good for pilseners.....

Cheers
DrSmurto

[gibbocore]

ahh cool, i get my water from both woronora and prospect, are they soft?

[OldBugman]

Sydney water is pretty good for pilsners.

Only the level of chlorine is a bit high, but this can be semi removed by pre boiling your water.

I think I recall someone saying that the cholrine is also removed by keeping water above 50-60 for an extended period.

[warra48]

ahh cool, i get my water from both woronora and prospect, are they soft?

Have a go at this link, http://www.sydneywater.com.au/WaterQual ... rAnalysis/
and then click on "Typical Drinking Water Analysis Sheet"

It will tell you all you need to know about Sydney water. Then read Palmer on water.

[drsmurto]

I'm glad someone knows where woronora and prospect are!

Gibbocore - fill in your location in your profile so people know where you are. Plenty of brewers in Sydney who can help you out with water chemistry.

[gibbocore]

cheers Dr, done!
I got myself beersmith and added the water profile in there, does that adjust the water temp to the type of hardness and grain i'm using?

[chris.]

cheers Dr, done!
I got myself beersmith and added the water profile in there, does that adjust the water temp to the type of hardness and grain i'm using?

Ah no. I suggest you have another read of HTB. Beersmith will predict your strike water temperature based on your mash temp - which will be up to you. The lower the mash temp the drier the beer & vice versa.

One thing that you might want to keep an eye on is mash pH. This will be partly determined by the permanent hardness of your water & your grainbill. To make it simplier for you, you may want to get a tub of 5 star's 5.2 pH stabiliser (craftbrewer stock it).

Another great tool for playing with water profile's is Ken Schwartz's Brewater. http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/
A softer water will be better for a Pils, but if this is your first mash I'd suggest you forget water profile's for the time being.

[drsmurto]

Not sure on Sydneys water chemistry - I have read that those mexicans below you have the perfect water for brewing pilsners but they are a tad soft those lot

[gibbocore]

Haha, i'm going for a Helles lager now anyway, i beleive Munich's water to be a lot harder than Pilsens so i should be able to get closer to the style.

Still i reckon i should be able to get close with a good quality liquid yeats and a hopefully high yeaild from my first mash...fingers crossed.

[beerdrinker]

Im going for a helles as well! Ive been using water from prospect put through a carbon filter. Should i be adding salts back into the mash and sparge water?

[Kevnlis]

The carbon filtration will remove at most a bit of odour, taste, and temporary hardness but will not ultimately impact on the water proifile.

I would not recommend adding any salts unless you have a water report from your city council.

[drsmurto]

Recently ran tests on water that had been passed thru a water filter. I can now scientifically say that these filters do 4/5ths of F.A. My analysis showed that less than 5% of trace metals were removed (Ca, Mg, Na etc)

As Kev said, the carbon filters are designed to remove organic compounds that impart odour and flavour. They reduce the chlorine levels but not chloride. Its important to understand the difference between chlorine (Cl2) and chloride (Cl-).

The best bet is to start with rain water which you can boil if you have issues with over hanging trees, or plane drop out. Using a program like beersmith you can calculate how much of each salt you need to add to adjust to your desired water profile. Or use spring water or RO water. Melbourne tap water is good as i said before, my experiences of Sydney water are that it is soft(ish) but tastes almost as bad as Adelaide water.

A good link to water profiles of the brewing world can be found here

Hope that helps

DrSmurto

[beerdrinker]

Thats interesting,i thought the carbon filter would remove some smaller particles. It does say on the box that it leaves the flouride in, Cl2 must be too big to pass through. Would the carbonate ions also come through? Should i be boiling it to remove the Cl2 ? thanks for the advice it got me thinking

[drsmurto]

Cl2 = chlorine
Cl- = chloride

They arent the same thing. Chlorine is a gas that gives tap water its distinctive smell, particlularly here in Adelaide.

Chloride is an ion, like carbonate, sulphate, magensium, sodium etc

Sorry for the chemistry lesson but its important if you want to modify the water to understand what you are doing not just why you are doing it.

If you want to remove Cl2 from tap water boiling will do the trick. The carbon filter will not remove carbonate either AFAIK.

As ive said before, if you can get your hands on clean rain water its the best bet, both coopers and west end in adelaide tap into underground aquifers. They dont use tap water that has been chemically treated! And neither should we.

[warra48]

I have a pilsner on my brewing schedule for January. I'm fortunate to have access to all the rain water I want from my in-laws, they only live ½ km from us. I'm thinking of using 90% rainwater and about 10% local tap water, which I think will give me close to a good match for Pilzen water.
Not sure how to get Promash to work that out for me yet.

[drsmurto]

Why not use 100% rain water? I do. But then i never thought of blending the 2......

[warra48]

I thought of blending a small proportion of tap water to the rain water, but only to get at least a few minerals etc into the brewing water.
Don't know that pure rainwater has enough?
I don't want to go down the track of adding all my own minerals etc etc.
Am I missing something in my reasoning?

[Kevnlis]

You do not actually have to add any at all. You might want to add a bit of yeast nutrient to be safe, but straight rain water will be fine.

[beerdrinker]

Have got all my fermenters And mash tun out catching rainwater A tarp strung up with a hole in the middle might be the go!