HELP! Am I over sparging? Sollutions?

[Burt]

Hirns, if we are now looking at this as a possible issue with oxidation, is there a possibility the keg/s have a small leak? You say the problem seems more noticeable in the kegged beer than the bottled beer so I was wondering whether the beer is being exposed to additional oxygen in the keg.

Speedie, if there are 2 batch sparges of equal amounts and both sparges are stirred prior to run-off, at what point is there going to be a drop in the gravity of the runnings considering the entire volume has been mixed to uniformity? Dr Smurto was merely pointing out the obvious point that terminating run-off at a certain gravity is only relevant if continuous sparging is being used. Hirns stated in the original post that sparging was of the batch variety.

[speedie]

correct me if i am wrong
lets look at double rinsing as you seem to name it
ie add an entire amount of sparge water to the grain bed then run until dry
this hasnt rinsed the grain bed of said sugars
then add another entire amount of water and rinse
you are simply using a dillution approach to a small vessel
if so is this what you name batch rinsing
so what is the differance to the end result with respect to fly or what i call sparging the grain
at the end of either wash there will be little amount of residual sugars
can we agree on that and get this to bed
what i have stated is dont go below 1.5 plato or 1006 og
for more reasons that i dont feel like going into now

stop the wash and start the flame, then add the hop, get the 10% evaporation rate, throw in the yeastie stuff and enjoy the rewards
does this make any sense or is it more of my so called drunken gibbor
man now you are starting me to thinging that i am silly
the speedster

[rotten]

Thanks whoever that was as always.
Do you really not know what batch sparge is speed something or other? or just playing the fool again?
Could you maybe tell us what your combined FG was Hirns? (sfter your two boils, batch sparge etc.
Cheers

[bullfrog]

Very simple concept to grasp here, Speedie, so try to pay attention; if you batch sparge then you cannot simply stop the sparge at any given point, your gravity reading for each sparge addition is going to be fairly uniform.

If you didn't understand the method to begin with, why on Earth were you getting your panties so twisted earlier and carrying on about how you're right, everyone else is stupid and the Doc was being unnecessarily abusive? Can you see why we dislike your posts, now?

[speedie]

how hard is it to turn off the flow at the outlet
are you making beer any differently to a time honoured system?

[bullfrog]

Are you talking the outlet of the hlt or the tun? The former is a ridiculous suggestion in batch sparging because you've no idea, at that stage, of the SG of the sparge and the latter doesn't help because, and I'll say it for the third time in this thread, the overall SG in batch sparging is fairly uniform per batch.

You're like talking to a brick wall.

[billybushcook]

Actually I find that my tailings from a batch sparge, the last litre or so of dribbles after the main flow runs out (without disturbing the grain bed), are up at about 1.050.
Edit:- even though my target OG is only 1.044 & PBG is usually 1.038

Mick.

[bullfrog]

There you go, the last bit to drain from a batch sparge is of a higher SG, further showing the inappropriateness of Speedie's advice.

[speedie]

bullfrog if this is how you brew you are wasting yeild
repeat this for the last time DONT mix the bed when it it set
just add your second batch of water
now do you understand the science of sparging
you gain nothing by aggitating the grain in fact all you are doing is adding more time to the brew day
now do you understand what I mean by stopping the runoff at 1006 or there abouts
happy easter

billy there is something wrong with your rinsing if the last runnings are 1050
this would indicate that there hasnt been enough water go through the bed

[Burt]

bullfrog if this is how you brew you are wasting yeild
repeat this for the last time DONT mix the bed when it it set
just add your second batch of water
now do you understand the science of sparging
you gain nothing by aggitating the grain in fact all you are doing is adding more time to the brew day
now do you understand what I mean by stopping the runoff at 1006 or there abouts
happy easter

billy there is something wrong with your rinsing if the last runnings are 1050
this would indicate that there hasnt been enough water go through the bed

This is genuinely hilarious. I truly do not know what to say. Speedie, before you post again, at least try to read something about batch sparging.

[bullfrog]

You keep getting rebuked for talking about methods that you know nothing about and yet you keep doing it. When will you learn?

They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks so I'm starting to think that Speedie is a 104 year old Pomeranian.

[speedie]

If you want to be lazy thats up to you, batch sparge an american adaption to incomplete brewing practice.

[gregb]

Speedie, be a good chap and have a read of either or both of the attached links before you next post in this thread.

Thanks,

http://beerdujour.com/SpargingDeMystified.htm
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/07/04/sparging-methods/

[warra48]

If you want to be lazy thats up to you, batch sparge an american adaption to incomplete brewing practice.

Once again, your prejudice in favour of your own familiar methods comes to the fore.

Will you ever learn to accept there is more than just your method to achieve the same ends?

I batch sparge, and make no secret of it, because I think it's the easiest system for me. According to my BeerSmith calculations, my Efficiency into the Boiler is almost never less than 90%, and occasionally just over 100%. That's as good as any homebrewer achieves, so you don't need to "fly sparge" or "continuous sparge" to achieve your ends.

I know about your futile argument on another forum about Efficiency calculations. Just to make it interesting, and let you do your own calculations, I'll set out my lastest brew recipe (formula in your tortured language). When you have done your calculations, and compared them to my result, then tell me again why "batch sparging" is an incomplete brewing practice.

2.80 kg Halcyon Pale Malt Thomas Fawcett Floor Malted
0.90 kg Wheat Malt, Weyermann
0.93 kg Munich I Malt, Weyermann
0.29 kg CaramunichII Malt, Weyermann

Total Malt Bill 4.98 kg. Collected 32 litres pre-boil at SG 1.048.

How does that compare to your usual efficiencies?

[drsmurto]

Hirns - I'd be pointing the finger at the filter as the source of oxidation. You get some turbulence when you run the beer into the filter. I've had a few beers by people who gravity filter out of primary that have been oxidised. One solution is to rack to a keg and carbonate it. Then filter keg to keg using CO2 to push it through the filter. You will knock out some of the carbonation but the beer is protected from oxidation by the dissolved CO2. You use twice as much CO2 as you are dispensing the keg twice but if it means not oxidising your beer then maybe for the next few its worth it to see if that is the cause of your problems.

Speedie - batch sparging involves adding all the sparge water to the mash tun and stirring such that all the liquid is at the same SG. There is no dropping of the SG as you run out the liquor as it has all be pre-mixed. Double batch sparging still involves adding large quantities of water to the mash tun, mixing and then draining. I batch sparge, sometimes once, sometimes twice. I never end up with an SG in the mash tun of lower than 1.016.

So your point Speedie, as always, is as useless as tits on a bull.

[bullfrog]

Wasn't it this kind of pig-headed attitude toward any method that isn't your own that got you perma-banned from the other site?

[speedie]

So your point Speedie, as always, is as useless as tits on a bull.
only if you batch sparge
no wonder you blokes dont get good yeilds

your beersmith program must be overcompensating
the other point is how do any of you achieve 88% plus extracts?
got me totaly bemused now

[bullfrog]

Uhm, we do get good yields. Just because people make beer with a different method to you doesn't mean it's wrong or going to not make good beer. This is the point that everyone has been trying to make to you ever since you joined this site and you've still not grasped it. Please do us a favour and add your computer to your next mash, that way we can finally be shot of you.

[speedie]

warra
32 litres preboil less 10% evaporation rate
28.8 liters x 12plato (1048og) / 4.98 Kgs =69.3% extraction
i know that there will be less yeild from some of the grain bill but this would be a good average
cheers

[warra48]

warra
32 litres preboil less 10% evaporation rate
28.8 liters x 12plato (1048og) / 4.98 Kgs =69.3% extraction
i know that there will be less yeild from some of the grain bill but this would be a good average
cheers

You got it wrong again. Please re-read my post.

I achieve 32 litres at SG 1.048, not 28.8 litres as you have assessed.
Evaporation differs from system to system, length and vigour of boil, external humidity etc, so it is pointless to include that in the calculations.
I am merely trying to give you the figures to enable you to calculate my Mashing or Extraction efficiency, and to compare it to your results for your brews. I'll bet my efficiency is as good or better than yours, even though I batch sparge.
I'm not trying to compare post boil figures, or efficiency into the fermenter etc etc etc.

By the way, 32 litres at 1.048 means it will be 28.8 litres at 1.053.

As the good book says "there are none so blind as those who will not see". Unfortunately, you seem to be one of those.