Flat Cider revisited

[JeffHool]

Hi folks,

For my second brew out of the coopers kit, I made a blackrock Cider for the missus, and its been in the bottle for three weeks and although tasting delicious they are all flat as a tack.

The recipe was a variant on Oliver's #35 cider, using ~200ml of berri apple and pear juice in place of the whole apples.

My first brew was of course the included coopers lager, which came out perfectly carbonated, and I followed the same procedure for priming the cider: (Bottled in PET bottles with 2 coopers carbonation drops.)

Very little sediment in the bottles.

It's been about 20-28C here in brisbane lately so I don't think temp has been a problem.

Heres what I plan to try in order:

1. Sit the bottles in 30 degree water for a while.
2. Add a couple of grains of dried yeast to the bottle.
3. Make a yeast starter and add a few mls of that to the bottle.
4. Add another carbonation drop/priming sugar.

Will the dried yeast get things started if I put it straight in to bottles that are 20-25C? Has anybody tried this?

[Oliver]

Hmmmm. Mysterious.

Perhaps the preservatives in the juice are having an effect?

I wouldn't add more sugar because by the sounds of it the first lot of priming sugar has not been consumed (if it had there would be bubbles in the cider).

Thoughts anyone?

Oliver

[JeffHool]

The Juice was freshly opened shelf-stable preservative-free.

It was in the fermentor nearly three weeks, and the yeast dropped out pretty hard on the bottom. I can see some fine suspension in the bottle, as well as the "swirl" of dissolved sugar in the bottom.

I have already tried the simple things like giving them all a good shake to get things swirling, but no joy.

I am not too fussy about the bubbles myself, and the taste is great, but the lady has expressed a desire for bubbles, and bubbles she shall have! (if at all possible )

[gregb]

Possibly the lamest cop-out response, but, give 'em another three or so weeks.

Greg.

[grabman]

I've got a cider that's fairly flat, but is also about 7%. My missus drinks it with the sparkling apple drink from the Natural Confectionary Company which has no added sugar etc and combine to make a pretty good drink! Also help the cider last longer!

[Clintsc9]

Maybe try one of those old soda syphons with the screw-in CO2. Fill it with the flat cider and away you go.

[JeffHool]

Thanks guys, a cheap soda syphon might be the surest way to go.

Any thoughts about adding yeast to the bottle?

[Guest]

i had a similar problem. However as the family drank them over the weeks, they started getting fizzer.
so i agree with grabman, and give it more time. Sucks arse, but hey at least you can drink beer and watch the ceiling

[Goatee]

sorry forgot to log in

[r.magnay]

I had a brew of Coopers bitter that was flat as a shit carters hat, I was a bit nevous, but I lifted the lid and Dropped a carboration drop in each bottle, I did three for a start and they all came up alright, so I chilled the rest and did the same, they were longnecks and I only added ONE drop per bottle. no worries, and I have just finished drinking them.

[Dogger Dan]

May I suggest artificial carbonation?

Maybe a chest freezer?

Dogger

[JeffHool]

1. Sit the bottles in 30 degree water for a while.
2. Add a couple of grains of dried yeast to the bottle.
3. Make a yeast starter and add a few mls of that to the bottle.

If I could revisit my original post, what is your collective opinion on these listed steps. Has anyone tried them. Are they a bad idea?

[JeffHool]

Flat cider status report:

I sat all the bottles in warm water for an hour or so, hoping the yeast would wake up. This resulted in about 2 PET bottles getting "hard" from adequate fizz. The rest showed no improvement.

Next, when bottling my latest beer, I scooped a big spoonful of yeast off the bottom of the fermenter and (minus the beer) poured about 3mls of yeasty water into each bottle. They are already starting to fizz up, and now have a nice suspension of yeast working on the sugars, whereas before there was nothing.

I am guessing that there was just not enough viable yeast in most of the bottles. So for any flat cider victims, I think maybe using a different (coopers?) yeast or putting a tiny amount of a live yeast culture into each bottle when bottling may be all that's required to fizz them up.

Of course I haven't tried them yet, but hopefully the yeast drops out and the taste isn't too yeasty.

[Dogger Dan]

Jeff

Good Save.

Remember that little gem, someone will ask again in about 4 weeks about dud yeast.

Once again, good job

Dogger

[Grabbie]

Hi all,
I have a black rock cider that has been fermenting for 2.5 weeks.
It is Oliver recipe but I have made 23 litres instead of 18 (Mean't to stop at 18 when filling but was distracted).
Apart from the fact it will now probably be less alcohol% and more watered down, I want to bulk prime it and hopefully not have the flat cider problems others have mentioned.
I was thinking of doing 200g of dextrose does that sound too much?
The reason I ask is I bulk primed for the first time on my last batch of Coopers Pale at 180g and it came out great although any more and it would have been over carbonated IMHO.
Also all I did was dissolve 180g of dextrose in a bit of boiling water and threw it in the top of my fermenter, three gentle turns of the spoon then bottled. It worked great, but now I read I should rack to a secondary first.
Can someone explain why?
Cheers,
Grabbie

[Tony]

Mostly it's for even mxing of your priming sugar. Sufficient stirring of your green beer to mix the sugar evenly poses a risk of oxidation. Racking to a priming container with a coil of tubing in the bottom should mix it well without the risk of signficant oxidation.

Q: Did you cool the dextrose before adding to the fermenter?

Tony

[Oliver]

Also, you rack before bulk priming to leave behind the yeast and other crud. If you bulk prime in your primary fermenter, you risk mixing up the yeast sediment and bottling some of that, too.

Oliver

[Grabbie]

Oh.
No I didn't cool it first, should I have?
Cheers,
Grabbie.

[Tony]

I would, because the yeast isn't going to like the higher temperature.

500ml (what I use) of priming solution in 23L isn't going to change the temperature of the whole brew by enough to kill off large numbers of yeast, but there would be a localised effect.

I generally boil up my priming solution 1st thing on bottling day, then put the lid on and set it aside. By the time I've cleaned and sanitised bottles etc, it's usually cooled to "slightly warm to touch". I've never bothered to actually put a thermometer in the pot.

[Grabbie]

Thanks Tony,
Yes I think I used 200ml but just poored it straight in.
Makes sense what you say though.
Cheers